Building a workshop for me build...

[W210]

Hello forum, I live in a link detached house and have reall nice neighbours but I want to build a Westy and know that the walls are very thin in my garage which links to next door so I would not want to put them through any noise being heard in their lounge.

I enquired with Cannock DC Planning Dept. about building a garage in my back garden and got mixed info...

Does anyone know what loop-holes I can jump through if I build a very big shed as opposed to a brick garage with footings, etc.

It will be below 2M high and I want to sink a bit of a pit to help with working underneath the car but not a 'stand-in' pit...would be happy with about 3ft. and some elbow room.

Rough dimensions would be 12ft.x18ft.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

W210.

[Norman Verona]

Mike, with the right architect to do the plans and application you shouldn't have a problem. But you do need to do it properly.

On the other hand if your rural just apply for a tractor shed.

[W210]

Not rural...wish!

I want to dig down a bit to ensure that my neighbours didn't see it over the fence but then the local authority then said that I will have to contact the water company and could not put any footings within 5m of a manhole cover and I have one in my garden but 3 doors down has a full garage and they have a manhole in their garden...what gives?

The info I am after is basically what is the maximum size of a shed...as in something that has no concrete floor so if ye water compnay want to get to a drain system then they can without too much chew...

W210.

[Mark (smokey mow)]

On the other hand if your rural just apply for a tractor shed.

That wont work unless the building is constructed on agricultural land. If it's built within the curtilage of a domestic building then normal planning rules apply.

As for building regulations, keep it 1m away from the boundary and you can build a garage from any material with an internal floor area of upto 30m2 and it would be exmept from control.  If it's less than 1m from the boundary then it would either need to be built from non combustible material or the floor area can't exceed 15m2.

[Mark (smokey mow)]

I want to dig down a bit to ensure that my neighbours didn't see it over the fence but then the local authority then said that I will have to contact the water company and could not put any footings within 5m of a manhole cover and I have one in my garden but 3 doors down has a full garage and they have a manhole in their garden...what gives?

If you intend to build within 3m of an Adopted Sewer then you will require consent from your local water authority as it is a legal requiement that access to their drains is available for repair/replacement and/or a suitable diversionary route available.  This is regardless of whether the building is exempt from planning an building regulations control.  

The above does not apply to private drains or unadopted sewers (at the moment) but will do (probably) later in the year.

If you don't obtain their consent and you inadventantly damage their drain, or over time the wieght of the building over/near causes the drain to fail then you will be in store for a very large bill from the water authority.

Your local authority building control should be able to advise you if there is an adopted sewer on you land as can the developer services department of your water authority.

[Mike H]

I thought the general rule was less than 4m high and more than 1m from boundary and not in front of your building line (which won't matter as it's in your back garden).  Then it can be a big timber shed as long as it falls within smokey's building regs restrictions.

Just checked planning portal and that's about right.

Mike

[SteveH]

Permitted building rights may allow you to build it without needing planning permission subject to some boxes being ticked -

(this is from memory so would be worth checking!)

No taller than 3m high for flat roof, 4m for pitched roof

No closer to the boundary than the house,

At least 5m from the house

Not taking up any more than 50% of the free area of the property

None of this will get you out of building regs, drainage etc though............

[Mark (smokey mow)]

The links I gave earlier will explain the distances you will need to maintain to boundaries/ other buildings etc as well as the heights/dimensions you can build to for certain types of buildings and roof types.

I notice from the Cannock Chase Council website that they will provide free planning advice on whether an application is needed.  I would suggest that you produce a basic scale plan for your property indicating the size and position of the garage you want to build.  If you send this to them they can then confirm whether it would be permitted development.  It's worth doing as it will then save having a planning enforcement officer banging on your door in the future if one of the neighbours decides to complain.  

As a guide to what to show on drawings, this was one of my applications.

[Lurksalot]

the drains issue is a relatively new one , it is starting to have an impact on conservatory building , most water authorities haven't yet got a strategy for actioning/approval of the builds .

[jim_l]

I am just kicking off a similar project, if you look carefully through Smokey's links likelihood is you will find you don't need planning permission or building regs approval...

You have 2.5 meters height to work with, I don't think you need a pit, they add difficulty to the build, less than standing height would leave you in some awful working positions, and they are dangerous, ideally needing extraction for any heavy fumes.

A flat felt roof is, done properly, considered to 'substantially non combustible'

Electrical work may require approval unless your council has a Competent Person scheme and you use someone that is registered.

In any case, just because you don't need approval doesn't mean you don't have to comply, i.e. build it properly, and from a planning perspective, tell the neighbors what you are doing anyway.

[Mark (smokey mow)]

From the brief information and dimensions given I would suggest that the garage would be permitted development and would also be exempt from building regs if kept 1m off the boundary.  There are a couple of additional considerations though that I forgot about yesterday.  

Certain properties may have had thier permitted development rights removed, or may have restrictions imposed upon what permitted development may be carried out.  This would be particularly the case with newer housing developments or properties that have been substantially extended in the past.  Sometimes these restrictions may simply prevent the erection of fences forward of the property in order to maintain a common street scene but likewise may also prevent the construction of small extensions and outbuilding which may appear as over development of the site.  Any such removal of PD rights should have been identified in the local authority searches when you purchased the house, and likewise the council planning department would be able to advise of any restrictions that may apply.

As Jim touches on above the construction of a pit would need careful consideration if this is something you intend to do, exhaust gasses are heavier than air and so will settle to the lowest point in the garage.  Also consider how you plan to waterproof the pit to prevent ground water seaping through the concrete walls and collecting water and likewise drainage from it.  I have an rsj built into the roof of my garage with a chain hoist which I use to lift the car when I need access to the underside, it may be an easier sollution for you.  

Any electrical works carried out within the garage would not be notifiable under the Part-P competent person schemes, however the laying on of power to the building and the cabling that crosses the garden would be need to be undertaken and certified by a qualified electrician who is registered to an accredited competent person scheme (eg NICEIC, ELECTSA, NAPIT, BSI....).

[W210]

All good info, many thanks...will check out the links.

I got the number of the Severn-Trent for the drain info but they're closed, will have to call next week. Did speak to someone there that tried to help though, they took my postcode and must have gone on Google Maps as she asked where in the garden I wanted to site the building.

"top right of the garden" I said, she then said the two doors down has a garage in the same spot and distance from the drain so I should be ok...

She then gave me a number but as stated they were closed.

Will keep you informed.

W210.

[Mark (smokey mow)]

they took my postcode and must have gone on Google Maps as she asked where in the garden I wanted to site the building.

There is a property level mapping system they use that covers the whole of the UK which shows the position and routing of all public sewers, manholes, water and gas utilities.  The only drains it doesn't show are the private ones on your property.  

Unfortunately it's a subscription service and I only have access myself to the Anglian Water region otherwise I'd take a look for you.

[W210]

Thanks anyway, Smokey :-)

[W210]

Lorks!

I eventually got through to the right person at severn Trent water and it turns out I will need to pay for a 'build over agreement' at a cost of at least £300.

Is this correct?

W210.