markl Posted August 8, 2003 Posted August 8, 2003 Help Just been working on refitting a Zetec 2.0L into my friends new car (SEiw) Just finished the install and he wants to know if its worth sticking with the twin Webbers or moving it over to injection? At the moment we have tested the BHP and its "really" around 172, Is there a kit you can buy to get injection on it? Should he leave it on carbs and spend the money on other upgrades? Any advice would be welcome.. Mark ? Quote
Blatman Posted August 8, 2003 Posted August 8, 2003 Injection will cost you around 2K, and *should* release some power, but it may not. What you will get is *vastly* better drivability. If you have the dosh, do it........ Quote
markl Posted August 9, 2003 Author Posted August 9, 2003 Thanks for the reply, I tend to agree with you, its money well spent... Does anyone do a "complete kit"? etc etc Mark Quote
Matt Seabrook Posted August 9, 2003 Posted August 9, 2003 Dunnell Been there done that although not with the Dunnell kit. Yes T/botties are worth the extra IMO and Dunnell will do almost everything in one kit for the Zetec ready maped (not sure that is always a good thing) Quote
markl Posted August 9, 2003 Author Posted August 9, 2003 Yes, I had a look at the Dunnell kits... But these seem pretty expensive (but looks really good) is there a cheaper way to go? Mark Quote
DENNISTHEMENACE Posted August 9, 2003 Posted August 9, 2003 Having had no end of problems with my twin Weber 45's on a 2.0 ltr Zetec, I looked at going that route and looked at throttle bodies from Webcon. They quoted £1700 + vat to supply only. Having discussed problem with carbs with various people I was advised to send them back to Webcon to be modified. The mod was to increase the number of holes in the progression tubes from 3 to 5. Essential when running at light throttle. I also got them to rejet the carbs to their specification to suit Zetec. I got them back on Wednesday and fitted them. This mod has transformed the car. It is much smoother. (A slight cough at 2000rpm if you are gentle with the throttle, although a heavy foot, drives thru it! So if your friend sticks with carbs, make sure he has this mod. It costs £45 + vat plus the cost of any jets, chokes etc if required. Turnaround is 1 week from Webcon. If you have any queries speak to Andy Gray at Webcon, very helpful and knowledgable guy. Quote
markl Posted August 9, 2003 Author Posted August 9, 2003 Great info thanks, I will strip them out for him and get them sent ASAP, trying it for £45 you cannot go wrong! What sort of extra power do you think you have gained? Mark Quote
Blatman Posted August 9, 2003 Posted August 9, 2003 He won't have gained any extra power by having the progression issues fixed....... Quote
markl Posted August 10, 2003 Author Posted August 10, 2003 Blatman... I thought he said he also got them to rejet the carbs to their specification to suit Zetec.? must have some impact? or am i being a complete numpty? Mark Quote
Blatman Posted August 10, 2003 Posted August 10, 2003 IMHO, if the jets are "wrong", then fixing them will produce only small gains. I reckon if it was running well enough without A) bore washing, or B) lean enough to destroy a piston, then there isn't that much "extra" power to be found. DON'T underestimate the improved feel of drivability though, 'cos it will almost certainly feel like you've found 20bhp. You won't have, but the extra drivability in the mid range makes a *big* difference...... Bear in mind Denis' car was running perfectly adequately before, he just wanted some fine tuning for throttle response at town speeds, IIRC, and to try to stop some of the popping and banging. By definition, it was running close to it's max potential already, so the fine tuning was just that fine tuning.... Quote
DENNISTHEMENACE Posted August 10, 2003 Posted August 10, 2003 IMHO, if the jets are "wrong", then fixing them will produce only small gains. I reckon if it was running well enough without A) bore washing, or B) lean enough to destroy a piston, then there isn't that much "extra" power to be found. DON'T underestimate the improved feel of drivability though, 'cos it will almost certainly feel like you've found 20bhp. You won't have, but the extra drivability in the mid range makes a *big* difference...... Bear in mind Denis' car was running perfectly adequately before, he just wanted some fine tuning for throttle response at town speeds, IIRC, and to try to stop some of the popping and banging. By definition, it was running close to it's max potential already, so the fine tuning was just that fine tuning.... Blatman.............What a clever chap you are, I could not have writ it better myself. I doubt you are phycic? you must just be a genius with Westy's Just one error Denis' car was running perfectly adequately No, it ran like a three legged dog, uneven, unless accelerating the popping and banging on slightest over run. The carbs were also rejetted etc etc total cost came to £260 odd as every jet, choke was incorrect spec. Obviously/presumably somebody with a little less knowledge had tinkered inside. This does not mean to say you jetting/chokes are wrong. Quote
markl Posted August 10, 2003 Author Posted August 10, 2003 Thanks explaining the jets issue... What is your opinion is it worth dishing the dosh and converting it to injection? £45 Vs £1770 etc I know injection gives smoother response, better power distribution and engine efficiency etc etc I have been chatting to two people today one with injection who claims “it’s like driving a new car” and the other saying “he likes the sound of the carbs and response compared to commercial car injection.” My preference has always been injection but I want to make sure that I am giving my friend the right advice to order up the kit! The only down side is I would have to fit it for him.. Umm maybe I tell him to stick with the carbs.. Mark Quote
DENNISTHEMENACE Posted August 10, 2003 Posted August 10, 2003 What is your opinion is it worth dishing the dosh and converting it to injection? Not a clue Having never driven a Westy with injection. I am sure Sir Blatman will be along shortly with his pearls of wisdom Quote
Carl Posted August 10, 2003 Posted August 10, 2003 If you are changing to injection don't forget you also need a new tank, return fuel line and new pump. Quote
Blatman Posted August 10, 2003 Posted August 10, 2003 Yup, plus an injection pressure regulator, fuel rail, high pressure fuel hose, and several hours on the rollers. The injection conversion isn't as straight forward as strapping on the bodies, wiring in the ECU (not exactly simple in itself, but not massively hard.....), and driving out of the lock up....... Dennis. I'm not a genius, sadly........However, I recall that you are reasonably new to all this, so whilst it may have been that your car ran like a 3 legged dog, it also didn't do any lasting damage to the engine, so it must have been close to being right. I also recall you had an air leak on the inlet/carbs somewhere, which probably had more to do with it than the progression issues. Seeing as you fixed both at the same time (I think), it's difficult to deduce which fix had the biggest effect. You should try my Cossie engined Westfield on 48's. It runs fine, but compared to a "normal" car, it's dog rough......... As for injection Vs carbs.....a *well* set up set of carbs will be ace. A well set up set of throbble botties will be amazing. My green car is on bottle throbbies, and it'll pick up, without hesitation, from tickover in 5th, all the way to the rev limiter. All I do is plant my foot....... Oh yeah, I get 40+mpg on a motorway journey too, and high 20's low 30's mpg when bimbling around the country. Track work hasn't really seen it drop below 15-20 mpg. My Cossie gets about 4mpg when thrashing it on the sprints. A carbed 170bhp Zetec would struggle to see double mpg figures on a track day, IMHO, assuming you're not the slowest person out there....and around mid 20's on a motorway run..... Quote
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