Engine Choices

[DodgeT]

apparently, (correct me if im wrong, im going off what ive been told)

why some people instantly say, oh bikes have got no torque, because the figures you see in magazines are always quoted at the flywheel, seem low, compared to bhp.

eg, blade @ flywheel is somethin like 130 ish bhp, 60 ish lb ft

which seems like no torque, but the torque what matters is at the wheels, end of the day, its power/torque at the wheels where it matters, & this is greatly amplified by the gearing, ISTR its something in the region of 1.5 x the amount at the flywheel, but this only applies to the torque not the power, so therefore it would be 90 lb ft as opposed to 60

form an orderly queue to shout or disagree with me but thats what ive been told & it sorta makes sense.

youve only got to drive one to realise that they HAVE got torque & bags off it

[peterrosey]

Yep hardly any torque in these new fangled motorised bicycle engines. Why my Megabusa only has the same amount of torque as a Mk 2 Golf GTI 8V...  

Whether a BEC is quicker than a CEC depends on what it's being used for (and who's driving - try a hot lap in a Busa with the Westfield race driver and you'll be lucky to keep your kidneys).

What I would say though (and I've driven both CEC and BEC Westfields) is that unless you've actually driven or been driven in a BEC, keep an open mind. I get sick of reading the garbage that gets written about BECS - try one before judging them!      

[NHC]

Jason, if you have a CEC in your mirror as you hit that right pedal, you better have good eye sight because it will soon be a small spot in your mirror!!!

From a fellow BEC owner (Busa).

[jasonlycett]

Went to a local caterham meet last night in Worcestershire. Great bunch of blokes, no prejudice at all, they loved the busa and gave  rides!

we are all just "7" nuts after all arent we?, got to be better than being in the Fiat Panda owners club!

Long live CEC's and BEC's!

[ChrisG]

DodgeT's correct on the torque thing although I dont think there is any nice multiplier you can use to work it out equivalent to a CEC as far as I know. As mentioned its all down to gearing, I was involved in a lengthy and informative thread on Blatchat a while ago which finally cleared the haze on understanding it for me. Fundamentally, its power at the wheels you want, so if a BEC and a CEC at the same road speed are producing the same power at the wheels at this point, then they will be also producing the same torque at the wheels (not at the flywheel), and so will accelerate at the same speed assuming same weight and power spread.

BECs lose out because they have less engine torque, but gain this back again because they are geared a lot lower than an equivalent CEC. On a BEC the torque at the engine is multiplied up more, so at the wheels its similar to a CEC of equivalent power.

Chris

[hilux]

hilux, where you based??  would gladly take you for a spin in me blade sometime

Herts, near Hitchin    

If anyone has a BEC at Mallory on 18th I would love to blag a ride in one for a lap or two

I know its not much of an incentive but in return you can go in my VX westy that only revs to 6500      and has a wobbly gear stick  

[neilwillis]

If anyone has a BEC at Mallory on 18th I would love to blag a ride in one for a lap or two

I know its not much of an incentive but in return you can go in my VX westy that only revs to 6500      and has a wobbly gear stick  

So you do admit that the Zetec is a far better engine then Hilux?      

[mb893]

So you do admit that the Zetec is a far better engine then Hilux?

Wow! You CEC chaps take no prisoners do you.      

[Matt Seabrook]

Wow! You CEC chaps take no prisoners do you.

 

[hilux]

So you do admit that the Zetec is a far better engine then Hilux?      

Just seen this while looking to take up all the hundreds of offers of a ride in a BEC      

bl**** cheek......    

Reason for post is that no one with a bike engined car has offered to take my svelte 13.5 stone frame around mallory in a BEC to stuff the `all revs and no grunt` argument

Pehaps I hit a chord with my previous comments ............          

PS: zetecs are not included as they are unique.........................torqued about a lot but still powerless in an argument            

[steppenwolf]

Fundamentally, its power at the wheels you want, so if a BEC and a CEC at the same road speed are producing the same power at the wheels at this point, then they will be also producing the same torque at the wheels (not at the flywheel), and so will accelerate at the same speed assuming same weight and power spread.

BECs lose out because they have less engine torque, but gain this back again because they are geared a lot lower than an equivalent CEC. On a BEC the torque at the engine is multiplied up more, so at the wheels its similar to a CEC of equivalent power.

I like this 'argument' .. MB893 and I debate this subject at every opportunity ( including FOS last weekend ) and , correct me if I am wrong John, this is basically the conclusion that we agree on as it fits the facts that they both do a similar job in a different manner. Where MB893 and I still differ is that he STILL thinks BEC's are better    

All I've got to do now is come to terms with the fact that his BEC engined car does actually out-accelerate my Zetec engined car ...... ahhh yes but his car is lighter ....... great, the debate continues  

[DodgeT]

Reason for post is that no one with a bike engined car has offered to take my svelte 13.5 stone frame around mallory in a BEC to stuff the `all revs and no grunt` argument

if i was attending, i gladly would

[neilwillis]

Has peace broken out once more in the BEC CEC war then?

       

I'm sure the VX versus Zetec war is destined to go on and on though  

[Blatman]

It wasn't much of a war, but you Zetec boys did the best you could..........never mind.......      

[neilwillis]

We just didn't like to pick on you too much - having a VX is bad enough without us having a pop