catherham build quility

[nikpro]

My best friend used to do trackside support for one of the leading trackday companies around and has probably driven more Caterhams and Westfields than most on here have had hot dinners!

I rate him as an extremely good driver and value his opinions on both Marques; he has owned a Westfield & Caterham.

Looks:

He reckons the Caterham looks superior and less 'kit-car 'ish'

Reliability: depends on build quality but both are described as 'nails' due to the excessive time needed on running maintenance/fettling.

Build quality:

caterham better but get very 'tatty' if not very well looked after.

Handling:

reckons a caterham is slightly better but only because most Westfields have an extremely poor 'geo' or none at all! If a westfield is set up properly it's very, very close. Reckons best compliment he can give a Westfield is 'it feels just like a Caterham'.

Owners:

Favorite saying 'Pikey Westfield Owner' summs it up! - they are always after everything at rock bottom prices and are not willing to spend the extra money required on Geo's etc to take there car to the next level - this is why they mostly dissapoint in respect to a Caterham where the owners tend to spend the money for final set-up.

On the Road:

Westfield is better due to indy rear and more room/comfort.

track:

caterham usually better due to being properly set-up, smaller and better steering feel.

Knowledge:

Caterham Racing is tightly 'classed' and optimum car set-up/driving wins - the settings that are best are widely available to Caterham owners and enhances the car as a trackday tool; Westfield owners are on their own and have to 'experiment'. Info on 'best' Westfield set-up for track use still very poor!

Ownership:

Struggles to understand why anybody would own either as just a Road car - Like Plato he thinks (as i do) they are crap! ............but great as trackday nails  

[juansolo]

I rate Caterhams very highly. Were I not able to have my Westifield (which is about as perfectly me as it could be), I'd not even think twice in buying a R300. Mainly because it'd be nigh on impossible to get another Westie like mine.

[Rory's Dad]

Struggles to understand why anybody would own either as just a Road car - Like Plato he thinks (as i do) they are crap! ............but great as trackday nails  

Let me help you with this struggle...

IMO it depends on what sort of roads you drive on.  I commute in mine over the moors - don't really use it much on evenings or weekends.

For me the Westy is a great road car and I live more on the journey than I ever do at work.

Mind you I've yet to try it on the track      

Rory's Dad

[James]

I have owned my car for six years, over that time it has had pritty much everything done to it, im almost at the end of the list, the investment has been huge, infact the only original items on my car are the chassis, axel cassing (its live axel) the front uprights and thats it! everything else has been replaced, I have enjoyed almost every part of upgrading / rebuilding it and I now have a well set up road car that is quite good on track day's.

do I like Caterham's yes alot and ive always wanted one! will I ever get one I dont think so and let me explain, I love the shape of them and the ali body does look better but this gives a problem with the electrical reaction between the panels and the steel, I have seen too many Caterhams with "issue's" in this department and I agree with Nikpro that they can look shabby quickly if not looked after, I have seen alot of very shaby Caterham's over the years and on the whole I dont think they are particluarly well looked after by there owners but there are exceptions.

On top of this is value for me to get what I have now in a Caterham I would have to invest at least another £10,000 and I dont feel that the diffrence is enough to warrent that kind of expenditure in fact a year ago I came the closest I have done to moving to the dark side and I asked a freind of mine his opinion on both the car I was thinking of getting and the move, He is a Caterham owner and fan and his words " you would be stupid to make the move"

I also dont really fit in the S3 chassis its tight b****y tight! and the only way im getting out is with lots of help and the SV is ugly sorry but it just is this car has no herritage just an obesity problem. infact its so bad it just shows what a b****y good job Westfield did with the Wide bodied car as they managed to make the car look proportionatly correct.

Oh and I hate the K series I think I would rather flint stone my   there but to be fair with that engine I probably would have to  

[GINGESEIW]

Most points covered already here! When I had decided I wanted a more modern set up (had pinto/4 speed/westfield diff/drums) I looked at a 2000 Westie (my current car) and was offered a Caterham (similar age) for the same money (which was cheap as sold for more in the end!) The Westie looked superb, very clean and tidy , no corrosion on panelwork and felt very tight. The Caterham admittedly FELT/LOOKED BETTER SCREWED TOGETHER (dash! interior etc) BUT the panelwork was beggining to corrode, the engine bay looked REAL tatty and the car felt no better, in fact more "skittish" on the road to me. I wanted a NICE car that felt good on the road and would be something to be proud of so....... I chose the Westie!

Adrian.

[Norman Verona]

Sorry chaps not avoiding the question but ben away for a few days. Can't stop now as I have to go out

However some of the points above are about design issues not build quality.

[stantman]

Before the latest wide bodied caterham was introduced there was no way I would have fitted in one. The wide body Westy helped fill a sector of teh market previously missed.

I dont doubt the build quality of the Caterham over the Westy but also the cost.

I have a nice Westy 2.0 zetec with more power than I need in the wet (and with my abililty the dry) for less than £7k.

The last track day I did there was easily a £20k Caterham that would be faster than mine, however with the wet track and the price difference I was lapping far faster and did not leave before the end of the session, he did.

Cost is important when you have a budget to adhere to and I would rather risk what I can afford to loose having fun on the track than be scared of crashing something that was to precious to risk.

Having said that the Caterham was beautifly turned out

[s2k7]

For me the Westy is a great road car and I live more on the journey than I ever do at work.

Westy a great road car?

Westy is death trap car for daily communting. Consider those biggest and the baddest US made SUV driven by a  soccer mom. If unfortunate thing happens, you're a road kill!

Nope not for me.

[dombanks]

For me the Westy is a great road car and I live more on the journey than I ever do at work.

Westy a great road car?

Westy is death trap car for daily communting. Consider those biggest and the baddest US made SUV driven by a  soccer mom. If unfortunate thing happens, you're a road kill!

Nope not for me.

i guess it depends on your commute.

It looks like rory's dad uses it on b roads and the like so i would expect traffic is not too bad and its fun to drive.

i travel on boring dual carriagways into the city so its all 40mph, trafic lights and stopstart queues so it would be pointless and uncomfortable.

if your going to use the death trap card then the westy and other such cars are deathtraps whereever you drive them. good build quility or not

[Rory's Dad]

Blimey chaps - I'm not a complete idiot    

B roads definitely, newy surfaced, some great sweeping bends, a scarey hairpin or two and not another car in sight (usually)- welcome to North Yorkshire    

Having said that I did get whalloped by a Ducati three summers ago while he was trying to catch up with his mates on the wrong side of the road in an s bend.    

Rory's Dad

[Rob Way]

I don't thnik the question is around build quality....as most westy's are home built it is totally irrelevant, the only part build quality can be compared on is the chassis and body panels!! . All of the issues you have discussed are design issues.

On this front the caterham chassis is stiffer, not alot but enough also on track for out and out handling you will be hard pressed to make a westy better than a de-dion axled caterham.

For me though, give me a narrow race chassis westfield with a live axel every time, but I like going sideways  

Who cares about build quality, if you want build quality buy a BMW.

[lippydave]

For me the Westy is a great road car and I live more on the journey than I ever do at work.

Westy a great road car?

Westy is death trap car for daily communting. Consider those biggest and the baddest US made SUV driven by a  soccer mom. If unfortunate thing happens, you're a road kill!

Nope not for me.

What a load of US oriented b*****ks.

(PS Admin, where's the w*anker emoticon?  

Maybe the environment you're using the Westie in isn't suited to the car, but in the right (admittedly small enveloped) environment, a Westie can be a terrific road car.

OK, for city commuting it's not ideal, and to be honest in most small cars  if yer hit by a fat Yank in a fat Yank SUV tank yer likely to be toast...  

I wouldn't want to use one on the road every day, but for instance an early Sunday morning blat on sparsely populated curvy British A and B roads can be a thing of  marvel and beauty....Come back buzzing with eyes on stalks like a good blast on a superbike does to you.  

It's good for your soul and as a previous poster has stated,it's positively life affirming....          

Anyway the original question here was, where is the differentiation in build quality twixt a Caterham and a Westie?

The credentials and properties of a Westfield as a road going car are pretty much identical to a Caterham from a usability, vision, and safety persepctive IMNSFHO....

Any way back to the point, where do peole see the big build quality variance between factory built Caterham and factory built Westie?

[Norman Verona]

Just a quick post as I've not much time.

If we're discussing design as well as build then here's my 2 cents.

Build quality will depend on the builder. I've seen badly built factory Caterhams and badly built self builds. I've also seen well built Caterham of both types.

However it must be born in mind what the owner (who builds his Westie or Caterham) wants form the finished article. Some want glitz - it must look stunning at all costs. Many pounds are spent on anodized oil pipe fitiings for example.

On the other hand some are not that interested in glitz but want a solid, reliable, lightweight car. I fall into the latter category nad the onlt time I've broken down in 19 years was when I was supplied the wrong clutch release beraing and never noticed. Once I had I've had no problem with clutches rippeng out the centres.

As far as design is concerned Caterham have had (including the Lotus years) 51 years to refine the design. They have employed top people (Jez Coates for one) to work on the design and the current car is somewhat more refined than the series 1 all those years ago. The cost of the this development is one reason the Cateraham cost more than a Westie.

I may be wrong on the last point buit a Caterham kit is complete. Assuming they pack all the bits you will not need anything else. The Westie isn't, which can be a good thing for the experienced technician to build his own design with his own soueced bits.

So, in conclusion, you pays your money and you take your choice. At the end I doubt there's that much differnce in price at the basic end of both marques. However I've build a Caterham) kit in a (long) weekend and I doubt you could do that with a Westie.

Forgot to make mention of the type of owners. Theres a few very nasty owners in the Caterham world and I'm sure there may be the same in the Westie world - but I haven't met any here yet   My view (for what it worth - not a lot) is that some Caterham owners feel they are superior because they have a Caterham. However these people will feel superior any any walk of life - it's there nature. I think we call them bum holes.

[James]

I forgot to mention the other reason I dont think I would have one, The De-dion tube issue's they scare the life out of me here are some examples of faliure's which have occured Ouch I know all manufacturers have issue's from time to time but this ones quite an issue and caterham have never admited to there being a problem but look at some of these pics, that tube looks mighty thin IMO

Give me a Ford live axel any day

For those who are interested here's the original thread

[pistonbroke]

I forgot to mention the other reason I dont think I would have one, The De-dion tube issue's they scare the life out of me here are some examples of faliure's which have occured Ouch I know all manufacturers have issue's from time to time but this ones quite an issue and caterham have never admited to there being a problem but look at some of these pics, that tube looks mighty thin IMO

Give me a Ford live axel any day

For those who are interested here's the original thread

Reading those failures you have to wonder about the Caterham design , esp in view of Normans comments re spending X amount of pounds employing specialists to "improve" the mark .

But then we musn't forget the Lotus  "heritage"    

To keep that intact,  they do have to continue with a long history of what Lotus were famous for

i.e. wheels falling off