Temperature

[DMS]

Just gone for a cracking blat - may the sunshine last forever etc.. - but have noticed a continuing problem that I thought was just a blip a couple of days ago.

Basically, if I drive along at any speed over 30 the temp gauge will show a nice 90oC.  But if I spend any time in traffic then the needle heads up and beyond 100.  The highest it has gone so far before I've managed to get up some speed is about 108 but I would have thought there'd be a fair amount of steam spewing out.

Question is:  do I have an overheating problem or do I have a temperature gauge problem???

[furtive]

What sort of engine?

[DMS]

4l V8.  All of 3 months old and built by the factory.

[peterg]

and is/are the fan(s) kicking in at a certain temp or is it on all the time? (ie do you have a thermostatic switch on it/them?)

you could test the gauge/sender with a pot of boiling water to ensure the engine really is getting that hot.......

[peterg]

and there's another thread about V8 engines and overheating

here

[Mark Stanton]

4l V8.  All of 3 months old and built by the factory.

Don't do anything yourself - if it is a factory built car - and just 3 months old - it should go straight back to them, to take a look at, same as you would with any other vehicle.      

They will surely take a look at matters and let you know / rectify as necessary      

[hilux]

V8 cooling is v v marginal and if not sorted will stuff your engine.

From day 1 the V8 had an oil cooler, I know that the new engines do not bear complete resemblance but this was the case with P5B Rover V8`s through the late 60`s and `70`s.

[DMS]

I'd love to take it back but that would involve a ferry trip and then a very long drive!  I'll speak to them tomorrow and see what they advise.

[Mark Stanton]

I'd love to take it back but that would involve a ferry trip and then a very long drive!  

I know it could be a lot of expense and trouble - but there is a strong possibility that you would nullify your warranty - if you touched anything yourself at the moment    

Speak to the folks in Kinswinford        follow their advice only and if possible - should they advise you to undertake matters yourself - get it in writing first - I'm not suggesting that Westfield would be leading you wrong - but this is business and matters of expense  

Don't let your heart rule your head / wallet - I'm sure Westfield will be very helpful and try and resolve your predicament - they can be understanding        and often are in these situations    

[Kevin Swinden]

I would endorse said previous, as the car isn't that old really it should be up for the job and the factory should sort, or at least help. However it seems you have a problem with distance from the factory.

For what its worth I have experience of big engines getting hot.  As a post forty year newbie I have the pleasure in owning a now elderly works group 4 2.6 HSR Chevette, for some of you old farts out there.  A  Jimmy McRea (Yes Colins Dad) Classic.

I had some dreadful problems with over-heating of this a 260bhp normally aspirated 4 pot stonker......... That was until I found the benefits of a swirl pot....... Now I am not suggesting this is the absolute answer but it really worked for me (my Westy is a pleasurable 1700ohv so it cools ok)..

If you are not familiar with the principles of a swirl pot, basically it educes a vortex in water flow coming from the outlet from the top of the engine and thereby releasing any air trapped in the water through the created vortex. By eliminating air in the coolant you increase the efficiency of that coolant and as a by product reduce cavitaion of the water pump. The theory being a water cooled engine cools better with water rather than air and water together.

The swirl pot is very simple in construction,  if some of you are interested I can take some photos of the said and post it.

When I first found about this wonder gadget I was mega skeptical. My original doubts were quickly dissipated (sorry about the pun). It really works and I now have a problem with the engine warming up……..  Seriously

Let me know if you want any more info

Regards

Kevin

[minghis]

I don't know what Westfield offer in terms of warranty, but if you getting the car back to them is a problem I don't see why they couldn't come to you.

When I supply someone a product, the warranty offers on site repair or replacement. We couldn't possibly expect people to bring the things back to us, it's our problem if there's a fault, not theirs (usually!.

Minghis

[peterg]

on the proviso that you may invalidate any warranty etc....

you could try a product called Water Wetter (made by Redline, page 223 of the DT catalogue) which can reduce the engine temp by up to 15c by breaking down surface tension and preventing vapour bubbles - I've used this in my race tuned GSXR1100 engine in the single seater as it gets very hot waiting in the paddock before a run and it has definitely reduced the problem as before I put it in it would start chucking water out of the overflow about 30secs after reaching correct temp even with the fan on, now it can idele for 2 minutes or so without boiling over...  

[DMS]

Thanks for all the replies.

Looking at the warranty, it seems to be a case of getting in touch with K'ford and, if necessary, they will authorise going to the nearest appropriate garage - which seems entirely sensible.

A quick view through the manual says that the thermostat starts to open at 82oC and is fully open at 92.  The fan switches on at 107 and then off at 100.  I know I've heard the fan kick in before (just managed to perceive it over the engine) but this was before I'd noticed the potential overheating problem so did not note the temperature at which it happened.

I'll give the factory a call this morning though especially since it's a glorious day and it would be thoroughly irritating not to be able to go out in the car

[Jon Murray]

DMS,

All factory built V8's do this - mine did and so did / does everybody's I've EVER spoken to.  These are classic symptoms for a SEiGHT, however this engine should not be allowed to run this hot.

The problem isn't with the radiator or the engine, the car will be fitted with an oil cooler and an nice big ally rad and a very efficient fan - the factory have all these items well sorted now.

The problem is with the fan switch itself - it simply comes in too high up the temperature scale, this is why the car is fine whilst moving, but the moment you stop the temperature creaps up and up and then the fan comes in when the engine is so bl**** hot that cooling it back down is a problem - not only that but the fan cut off temperature is also too high!

The answer is to get what Westfield call a "low temperature" fan switch - it kicks the fan it at about 92 degrees (if my memory serves me correctly), and doesn't turn off until it cools the engine back down to about 86 degs.  The fan on my car never comes in whilst on the move, but is there when you need it when stuck in traffic!  Once stationary the Westfield fan does a great job of keeping everything cool.

I have never had any further problems since fitting this to my car and neither have many other SEiGHT owners I have spoken to.

As Mark said, be careful not to invalidate your warranty, but a temp sender can be fitted yourself...

To fit one, don't bother with dropping all the coolant and removing the nose / rad assembly (ducted nose), do the following:

1) Remove the expansion tank cap

2) Place some fairly thick plastic over the filler hole (a quality plastic bag type plastic)

3) Screw the cap back down tightly - the plastic bag trick stops you losing hardly any coolant when you remove the fan switch which is lower than the expansion tank.  It does this by not allowing air into the system.

4) Jack up the car and remove the OSF wheel

5) Through the hole wher the upper suspension arm attaches to the body you will see a black painted steel pipe connecting to the front radiator screwed into it is a brass and plastic temp sender (either blue or brown plastic) with a couple of wires attached.

6)  Remove the wires from the sender and with a pair of gland nut pliars (Plumbers pliars) you should just be able to loosen the the old temp sender.  Unscrew it the rest of the way by hand.  Its fiddly - due to the location of the thing - but it is possible.

7)  Quickly screw the new lower temp one in, tighten with the pair of gland nut pliars, (remembering to swap the copper washer over from the old one if a new one isn't supplied).  It doesn't need to be too tight - half a "grunt" as a fitter once described to me! (Cylinder head bolts where two to three grunts !!! )  

8) Re-attach the wires to the sender, replace wheel, remove plastic from under expansion tank cap, etc.

9) Check fluid levels, top up if necessary with quality antifreeze.

10)  Start you engine and check temps that the fan cuts in - go for a blast and forget your overheating (when car stationary) problems  

Hope this helps,

Jon

[DMS]

You have to laugh..........

I spoke to the factory and their response was basically "big engine, little space, it gets hot".  They also confirmed that the fan should kick in at 107 and off again at 100.  They suggested a few tests to check everything is doing what it should.

Then I read Jon's response (very helpful   ) and thought this would be the way to go.

Just to check the fan was working, I let the engine idle last night and it got all the way up to 96, the fan kicked in and then off again at 92.  All the way to work this morning the fan would leap to life at 92 and cease at 90.  It seems, therefore, that the problem has rectified itself for the timebeing.  Of course, it will only ever manifest itself again at the most inconvenient moment.