i hate dogs!!

[Muttleys V8]

Long shot:

Sell the dog to one of your friends who lives out of your area for £1. They can take out insurance as they've only just got the dog and they're unaware of any prior problems. They then take the dog to a completely different vet for diagnosis. Get the problem fixed on the new insurance policy. They can then sell the dog back to you for £1.

Dog ok, Westy in garage!

Just what I was thinking.

Steve

[Terry Everall]

You need to know if the dog is fit enough to survive the op and also what trauma may be involved in the recovery process, how long recovery takes and the quality of life after the op. Some people put animals through hell and claim its because they love them?

I have owned cats , dogs , horses and they all pose differnt problems in terms of fitness and life quality as they get older.

Whether you can afford it is up to you.

I would check back with who you got it from because the dog was obviuosly ill when you got it and had the condition so they might be able to help in some way

Best of luck

[dombanks]

cant advise on the decision of spending the money, however if youve been through the uni vet hospital will the operation take place at leighurst? if so i cant praise them enough for the way and the expertise they showed when dealing with our horse.

SWMBO looked up the type of colic she had and basically it was as bad as it could have got, she was likely to be suffering with it for months but because of the way it manifests was never that serious untill the one time it goes bang. It might explain why she just got cranky. when we took her she seemed ok but it was leighurst who said she was very ill and it was them that incisted she needed surgery and they were right. it was thier skill that made the difference as they said alot of place would just have sent her home to see what happened on box rest. we would not have got her back there in time. They saved her life so if you do go ahead and its at their small animal hospital she will be in the best hands

having her put to sleep is brave decision and if its to avoid pain and suffering later then it is not the wrong thing to do. esp as you probably wont get insurance now to cover any knock of problems... (charlys colic has cost an extra £600 ontop of the 3K from before)

[dhutch]

From the dogs point of view, 3 looks OK (might suit you too!).

Rory's Dad

I have to admit, although it was clearly be a shock all round when it did happen, even with prior warning, it might not be the worse option.

I also agree what, while a dog is part of the family, and its right and proper to do whats best for it where sensible and reasonable, spending money to prolong life is not always the right option. Clearly in the wild, option three would have been the only option.

We had a rescue dog that ultimately ended up being shot for worrying sheep the week before Christmas. It put a bit of a damper on things for that Christmas, but she got to 13 and was a right live-one. Short of keeping her on a lead 24/7 it was alway a possibility. but she would have hated not to have been able to run, and we where as careful as we could be and she made 13. Not awful in my book.

Daniel

[Jonah]

First off I am very sorry to hear about your problem & it is not a decision I would like to have to make.

What sort of a rescue centre  lets someone have a dog with a heart problem & tells the new owner that the dog should grow out of it. I would have thought it pretty unusual to "grow out" of a heart condition.

My first port of call would be the rescue centre & ask the manager whose advice they took before giving you this obviously incorrect opinion on the dogs condition.

I hope this works out O.K. for you.

[silverknight]

thanks guys

she is chipped so selling her and then buying her back is not an option really as the rescue center gave pet plan her chip number.

the chance of recovery are good and she could well go on to live a full and happy life, she is more than strong enough to go through the op and survive.

having her put to sleep is not an option really but those are the 3 the vet gave us.

so it is one or three.

I grew up on a farm and have assisted animals on there way to the next life on vets advice so if it was best i would do it .

three is an option but i have 2 boys 2 and 7 so to be playing ball and she drops dead in the park would be very traumatic for the eldest at the moment,

she belts round the garden like a rocket in 20 min bursts you would say there is nothing wrong but i have seen the scan today and know there is.

thanks

gareth

[Matta]

Based on your last post, go for the operation.

We have 2 retrievers and they're absolutely part of the family. One we've had since she was a pup and the other we took from a friend with a known liver condition - therefore we have insurance limitations on her. Our vet is brilliant with her and we know she may not have a normal lifespan but her general health is good and we'd spend money on her without hesitation if the prognosis was generally favourable and her quality of life would be sustained.

If you are attached to an animal the way we are with ours, it's a no-brainer - however, my Westy is in the garage!

Maybe you can go for a cheaper one (car that is) in the not too distant future and do the right thing for the dog?

Hope that helps - it's a hard one.

Matt

[lippydave]

I really sympathise with your situation...

We have 3 dogs and I'd like to think that given the choice between keeping my toy car or having a necessary op on one of ours I'd sell the car to finance the op if necessary.......

Looking on the brighter side of it, at least secondhand Westies appear to be getting cheaper.......

They're only cars mate, you can buy one anytime, but yer dog is a living. loving creature and although you can get another one, any animal lover will tell you that' you'll stil have affection for your previous hounds long after they're gone.....I've lost 2 to old age over the years and one to illness.....You always wonder if you could've done more for the one afflicted with illness....

I would however be seeking second opinions as to the possible effectiveness of surgery, there are a lot of vets willing to perform expensive op's that aren't necessarily helpful IMHO.....

It would be option 1 or 3 for me based largely on the likely success rate of the op....

The way I look at it is, if I dinged my car, I could throw away the scrap and happily buy another car, If I lost one of my dogs, I and the rest of the family would be heartbroken....

Whatever happens or however you have to choose best wishes from all of us for your hound and family...

[Rory's Dad]

Being put to sleep whether for an op or as goodbye are both the same for the dog.  Your dog (and its unconditional love for you and your family) seems to be having a great time at the moment - don't spoil it is my advice and go for 3.

Rory's Dad

[perksy]

Gareth

As already said in my email Mate

Pets become part of the family pretty quickly

We were in a similar situation a couple of years ago but luckily had insurance

Do some research on the internet, you'd be suprised how much info' is out there

This might help with a final decision

Worth contacting the Dogs home and asking their opinion and perhaps some help      

Either get the op' done or let things take their natural course

The most important thing is the dog doesn't suffer any pain

There's no way i could get any animal put to sleep if it wasn't in pain or very seriously ill

as an aside Mate, the Westy you were interested in has been reduced in price, so there might be even more room for negotiation

But at the end of the day, there will Always be Westfields for sale...

Perksy    

[DITCH]

From my point of view, it's a No Brainer !!!!

Can you really afford not to have the operation ?.

Understandably, the kids do not want to see there best friend passing away in front of them, hell no, life can be bad enough without that s***e.

Speaking only from my point of view, I would not hesitate financially to put my little fella right whatever the cost......

I'd even put the missus on the street  corner !!!!!!!  "And before anyone asks. NO I AINT JOKING"!!!!!

[echambers915]

awful situation to be in...

3 sounds like the best option to me though, to die quickly or drag out an operation and long period of pain?

No choice!

[ACW]

My point was that depending on the size of a VSD (hole) it may be of a size that will self close (probably too long for this), or cause no major issues, be somewhat limiting in physical capability, or lead to CHF due to the heart having to work to hard and often putting on muscle mass or wasting. What may look bad on a scan - *may* be live able with assuming you dont want the dog to win down the local greyhound track.

The hole is IMO unlikely to lead to sudden death, but there may be an optimum point to intervene. With holes there is still some debate in humans about closure of small holes by surgery or not depending principally if you are a surgeon or if you are a cardiologist.

Surgery after a period of concern is likely to the end of the issue, but there is a period when sudden death could well be an outcome. If the closure is by surgery rather than catheter then there are some associative risks that in humans with no other issues is typically quoted at less than 5%. These are to do with damage to the electrical system of the heart and other complications. Catheter also has risks typically quoted in human infants at 2-3%.

I guess my overall point is that you probably have some breathing space as the hole is unlikely to be an emergency at present and if it is then it may reduce the overall outcome of surgery. I would spend some time trying to get some advice. I would always go with option 1 or 3 as there is unlikely to be much pain at present in the short term.

Ive no knowledge of cardiac problems in canines, but have read a lot of research in infants and children.

[jeff oakley]

It is a big decision and one that you need to make carefully. If the dog is well enough and can stand the trauma of an operation then the next question is can you afford it? If not then it is a no brainer on the course of action.

I would want a second opinion but as your Vet has backed off I think it would be safe to assume they are giving advice as they will not profit from this.

As in all walks of life there are some vets who care more for the money than the animals and the internet is full of such stories where 80 year old Doris has been emotionally pushed to spend money they did not have or where someone else spent a fortune on a rabbit.

Having just spent nearly £1k on an operation on our dog that the insurance did not cover I feel for you but that is the way it is now. I also agree that Vet fees have shot up recently I don't know if it justified at all.

Without knowing much more I would probably let the dog just live its life it has had a better life with you than it would have had previous and your kids will understand life and death even if it does end suddenly.

Tugh choices for you and your family