o/t - double glazing woes

[Asterix]

Loads of work going on in the house at the moment.

Including all new windows and conservatory, ordered through our builder who sub-contracted this work out to his usual window people.

They have done a not very good job this time round (have no idea of their provenance). Am dealing with lots of issues but the one I'm most concerned about regards a bay window in the lounge.

EITHER the measurement from side of hole to other side of hole was (IMO) appalling OR the fabrication of bay window to fit accurate measurements was (IMO) appalling OR there's been a mix of both "problems".

Upshot is that there is approximately an inch of expanding foam between window frame and brickwork on both sides of window. Course, if I hadn't been living there at the time then the builder could've plastered up to the window and (I assume) I'd never have known.

I don't want to beat them up about it unless I need to (there are other battles to fight). Question is, will that  fitment lead to long term problems or am I worrying about not much?

Note that though I signed off the design of the windows, there is *no* contract and I haven't paid yet and, worst case, can tell them to take their f**king windows away and go and ruin someone else's day.

Ta for any advice received, especially if you're a good window fitter.

[Rory's Dad]

In my opinion the bay window is not fit for purpose.  You need to speak to your builder and tell him that the window is obviously too small and needs to be replaced.  You shouldn't pay for other people's mistakes.

Rory's Dad

[Captain Colonial]

Agreed - and take photos as well.  The window is supposed fit the opening, and that much expanding foam is ridiculous.  Do it quick as well, don't let it fester, make your feelings plain that it is unacceptable and you are rejecting it as unfit and unsuitable.  Good luck.

(Edited to mention a friend had the same thing with his bay windows and accepted it - went away on holiday and when he came back, burglars had broken in by prying the window completely out of the opening in one piece through the expanding foam!  His window was found sitting in his front yard when the neighbours noticed it the next morning, and he'd been cleaned out.)

[Nick PC]

Someone has got something very wrong and you should not accept it. With that amount of expanding foam the fixing of the units will be suspect and you may also get weathering problems in the long term.

[Bananaman]

Would really need to see pic's to undersatnd the issues.

There is a guy on here Paul who posts as higgsti who runs a business installing windows, he did a house that i own for very reasonable money. His company (assuming he's still in business is http://www.a6windows.co.uk/

Might be worth giving him a shout to get some professional advice?

Andy

[carpetstu]

Speak to your local council. As far as I know window fitting is now licensed and overseen by the Building regulations.

If you where to self install a window for example it has to signed off by local council to say its safe.

[Tubs]

This could be tricky as you are into the realm of contract law and you will be required to prove that the contract has not been fulfilled.

At the same time, you should not have made final payment until work is completed and if there is an issue then you are entitled to decline final payment.

You are also required to give the party with whom you have the contract a fair opportunity to correct their error.

So, who did you engage to measure, build and fit the windows. If your contract is with the fitters i.e. they measured and arranged the build and then fitted, you are in a stronger position.

You will also need to prove that the gap was 1 inch and not that there is just one inch of foam visible and also that 1 inch is going to compromise the integrity of the window for both function and aesthetics.

If you were involved in any part of the process then it may be difficult to get anything done.

Good luck with whatever action you take. My wife and I had a similar problem recently but we were fortunate that the supplier had measured etc so we were able to get a resolution to our satisfaction.

Tubs

[Mark Stanton]

You need to have a word and quick with your builder - DO NOT enter into any discussions with his sub-contractor, really you should not have signed off the work, so best to try and keep it friendly.

Who is undertaking snagging ?? I assume you are on direct contract with your builder ?? what agreements ??

Builder and his subby need to sort between them as to who is responsible for dimensional accuracy, co-ordination and quality. You need only liaise with your builder and state in writing (after friendly word) that you do not accept works undertaken

[Garry Bunn - Derby & Notts Joint AO]

Hi Pete,

A photo would be useful....if I am picturing it correctly then the end of the frame will be at an angle to the brick work. This will mean a small gap on the outside that will be sealed with mastic would become larger on the inside.........but I stand to be corrected.....

ps I can call in on the way home if you want any moral support.....

[Mark (smokey mow)]

Is the window replacement being certfied self certified by the installers under the FENSA scheme or via a Building Regulations application?  

If as a Building Inspector I was expected to sign off a window installation where basically a window had been made too small and therefore bodged to fill the opening then I wouldn't be too happy and would probably ask the following.

1. What arrangements are in place around the frame to resist the ingress of moisture (through rain etc) either from externally (note: I would expect more than just a bead of mastic) and moisture transfer from within the cavity to the inside.

2. Does the expanding foam provide the same degree of insulation arround the frame for iff it were butted directly against the brickwork? and if it doesn't what are the risks of condensation forming at this "cold spot"?

[Asterix]

Note that though I signed off the design of the windows, there is *no* contract

Ta all.

See the quote - all I've signed off is the pictorial design, there's no small print. I haven't signed off "the work".

I am only working through the main builder - any discussions with window subby are not decision making unless builder is there.

@Bunny - the gap is top to bottom m8, the window is straight but not wide enough (though I guess they'll try to plaster to the window so you won't see the gap). Thanks for the moral support, it's not me who needs it most - it's SWMBO. You're more than welcome to pop round anytime m8.

[Mark Stanton]

and to add to Marks comments (always spot on)

3. Are windows adequately supported / fixed to all adjacent structural members providing adequate support to window frame

Far too many are simply wedged in place and foam filled      

Peter - have words with builder     send me photo's if you want   will take a look

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

Surely if its a bay window, the angles at which the side windows join the front facing window can be adjusted to make the ends fit the brickwork properly?

Although to be honest, if it were mine I would be  kicking up

[barney]

peter sorry to hear about your building probs..

QUOTE

ps I can call in on the way home if you want any moral support.....

call bunny in ,the man is an expert in the field  of arguing/negotiating...      

ps if this doesnt work send madam in for absolute carnage      

ps .on the countdown to RIAT    

[zvezdochka]

I had some windows fitted a few years ago.  I discovered that the fitters were instructed to use foam as the  only fixing and no screws.  When I protested they agreed to use screw anchors as well as foam. I thought all was well.....

However, we recently had to replace one frame and discovered that the screws  were only an inch or so long and not into the masonry so were doing nothing.