HANS Device

[Arm]

The issue for me is that the governing body will become sensitive to the discussions around them and may make a decision that is based on the political implications alone.

An excellent example being the mandatory use of catalytic converters.

The use or not of Hans devices needs to be made in conjunction with representatives from a cross section of organising clubs and from the relevant experts. Those clubs should also be our focal point for arguments in favour of or against the use of these devices.

I will be using one in the single seater but that doesn't qualify me to make a decision or ask if they will be made compulsory for other classes.

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

Some good points Ash.

The CAT decision was a purely political one.

I personally wear a HANS and have done for 4 years, but would not wish them to be compulsory. In a single seater exspecially a big V8, they are really a must, just in case, and with the high speeds involved everywhere.

[Richard M Green]

Governing bodies DO make decisions based on the political implications alone.  That’s life!

Recognise it….Get over it….Then learn how to exploit it to your advantage.

But if you think that I, or I suspect many others, are going to avoid discussing any possibly contentious issues with the MSA (or any other governing body) just in case they become “sensitive to the discussions” then I’m afraid you’re sadly mistaken.

[Arm]

Oh dear and I was trying to be sensible about this.

I'd be happy to tell you what I really think if you like.

[Mid life crisis]

Go for it Arm!

[Matt Seabrook]

Are HANS devises more suitable to single seaters due to the fact that you will also have side support  for your head with high cockpit sides of a single seaters. How in a Westfield are you going to stop lateral head movement?  Or are you just meant to hit something head on?

[Richard M Green]

From what I've read, you're absolutely right that the HANS will function usefully only in the vehicle's longitudinal axis - other means of restraint are needed to control the effects of lateral forces.

I don't know what might be the maximum lateral vs longitudinal deceleration forces consequent upon an impact with a stationary object, for example, a barrier.

Instinctively a full speed head on impact would seem to be worse than a side impact, but as the available 'crumple zones' are quite different, so in terms of adverse forces on the driver it might not follow.

The potential accident that has worried me as worst case for a lateral impact; is having the car snap sideways (for whatever reason) and then being t-boned amidships by the car following behind....

[DickieB]

QUOTE

The potential accident that has worried me as worst case for a lateral impact; is having the car snap sideways (for whatever reason) and then being t-boned amidships by the car following behind....

Having spun at Silverstone a couple of years ago and ended up stranded broad side on the track whilst watching 30+ cars try to go past me, I can vouch for that being a worrying incident.  I don't mind admitting that I was curled up in the cockpit like a baby!

If we go back a few decades, helmets and fireproof overalls were not even invented, then became optional, then finally mandatory.  Will HANS follow suit? Who knows - at the moment, most sensible people will race with as much protection as they can afford - balanced against competing priorities for cash and their assessment of risk.  I've always felt that hillclimbs were more dangerous than circuit racing, and I've done plenty of both.

My return to the Speed Series this year will see me with full roll cage, 6 point harness, HANS, 3 layer Nomex, gloves etc - perhaps I'm just getting old and cautious (not that I intend to let that affect my driving).

Dickie

[Matt Seabrook]

I've always felt that hillclimbs

Thats one of the reasons I stick to sprints not quite as much risk as the hills.

[Richard M Green]

QUOTE

Oh dear and I was trying to be sensible about this.

I'd be happy to tell you what I really think if you like.

I fully appreciate your concern for the way in which individual license holders communicate with the MSA, and the possibility that comments might be misconstrued, or attributed to being the view of the wider community when in fact they are a minority opinion.

Also I am sufficiently experienced in political lobbying to understand that it is often the vocal minority who achieve their ends, whilst the silent majority get shafted.

However, please recognise that you were not present at what amounted to an informal discussion last week with the gentlemen of the MSA, hence you are not in a position to understand the context of my question regarding HANS, the discussion that preceded it, nor the intonation and nuance in the way that I phrased said question.

For your edification; we also discussed other safety devices, the introduction of catalytic converters, and some novel ways in which motorsport might do its bit PR-wise in proactively attempting to ensure that our sport does not fall foul of the environmental lobby.

Other than differentiating between FIA and non-FIA sanctioned championships, specifics regarding types of car, categories and classes of sport, and names of clubs were not relevant and weren’t mentioned.

I made it very clear in my post yesterday that “….it was not my intention either during last week's discussion, or in my posts in this thread, to suggest that the MSA should mandate the use of HANS”.

Now perhaps we should continue to discuss the OP's original question…?

[stephenh]

Richard, with reference to the instalation guide which you gave a link to earlier in this thread, it sounds quite complicated to me. Do you know if the standard Westfield (4 point) harness mounting lugs meet the requirements in regard to distances, angles and so on? If not, then the instalation could be quite a substantial cost issue, as well as presenting possible practical difficulties on a standard road-going car.

There is a problem in replacing the so called RAC 'bar with a fixed 'bar, in the same way, because the boot box cannot then be fitted. That in turn makes it difficult for touring.

[Matt Seabrook]

From my understanding the Westfield mounting positions are not right for a HANS system.

[westy turbo]

So no way ig actually wearing one? what the problem will be? i am wanted to get one soon,but now am concerned about the fitting issue you mention.

[Buzz Billsberry]

I'm using HANS in a car (1999 SEW) with Willans 6 point harness (with 3" shoulder straps).  The car has factory fitted fixings and a Playskool seat.

Installation iaw FIA guide here: click

- it seems that they recognise the reluctance of those who who are perfectly willing to spend money on go faster modifications, but have little concern for their personal safety.....

Long live racing drivers  

Buzz