looking for my first westfeild

[ultimate keyboard warrior]

hello ,i am looking to update to a  westy,and was wondering which engine i should go for,i was looking at maybe a duratec but after reading threads recently i maybe thinking sigma. the car will be road and track use, all your thoughts appreciated,thanks paul  

ps, what you expect to pay for say a duratec medium spec

[John Williams (Panda) - Joint Manchester AO]

Let the discussion begin.....

Anyway Welcome to the club? Where abouts are you?

My drive is a silver top zetec 1.8  (very happy... weekend runer and it did its first track day this year)

the limit was the driver not the car!

cheers

John

[chris7273]

I am a newbie so can't help you... but A few info that could be needed to get more accurate answers from experienced members :

- driving skills ?

- maintenance skills ?

- maintenance equipment  ?

- budget ?

- expectations for track days ? ("kill 'em all" or just have fun ?)

...

[Hammy]

I'd turn the question around - this big issue is how much do you want to pay for a car, what sort of use do you want from it ( track days ,touring, everyday,  manic road stuff ?)

Having established this i'd look at what I can afford - be realistic.

The big divide is between bike engined cars, car engined 4 cylinder cars and V8's each has its followers and gives a different type of drive.

low budget 4 bangers will get you CVH/Xflow/pinto cars,

Bigger bucks XE, Zetec, et al and then Duratech.  - As you seem interested in this high end level of cash, I'd look at all of these types of motor as condition/spec of the whole car may dominate and  be "good value"more than a specific engine  (e.g a highly tuned XE  with Carlos Fandango wheels, 7speed gearbox, and titanium gear knob might be better buy than a cooking Duratech with no heater- you get the idea).

Beware extras too - swapping undesirable dampers, wheels, etc to get it how you want can add a lot to your budget nad not be reflected in  better resale value.

Duratechs will be thin on the ground and most likely the more costly end for a given performance/spec.

So wots you real budget ?  then have a look whats for sale !

good hunting !

[cast iron]

well done for at least getting it the right way round, coming to the club, asking advice, then buying.

I cringe when a newbie pops up and says ive just bought this Westfield of a guy in a pub and....

[john_margaret]

Hi,

I only boght my Westfield a cople of years ago and not being so flush at the time could only afford a 1.6cvh tuned to a modest 120-130hp.

Before you rush out and buy the lastest top spec model seriously consider your driving skills, if you've never drove a lightweight rwd sportscar before they really do offer a serious amount of performance even in the lower spec models.

I feel many people seem to need the latest gimmics and an engine producing stupid hp when they don't have the skills or nerve to drive the machine to the full-This may sound stupid but with 300+hp/ton yo really can't drive the way you do the daily runabout.

At least if you start with a modest level of power with a reliable engine design you won't stand to loose much on the original resale value when you've mastered what the car has to offer and are ready for more.

[jak]

Hi,

I only boght my Westfield a cople of years ago and not being so flush at the time could only afford a 1.6cvh tuned to a modest 120-130hp.

Before you rush out and buy the lastest top spec model seriously consider your driving skills, if you've never drove a lightweight rwd sportscar before they really do offer a serious amount of performance even in the lower spec models.

I feel many people seem to need the latest gimmics and an engine producing stupid hp when they don't have the skills or nerve to drive the machine to the full-This may sound stupid but with 300+hp/ton yo really can't drive the way you do the daily runabout.

At least if you start with a modest level of power with a reliable engine design you won't stand to loose much on the original resale value when you've mastered what the car has to offer and are ready for more.

Follow that advice and you won't go far wrong!!  

And welcome.    

[RedditchJay]

I agree... I also started in a 1600cvh.... had 3 years of fun {span 4 times} then went to the zetec I have now.... couple more years with this 160bhp love machine then upto 200bhp plus duratec or similar.....small steps... progressive and safe

[simmi]

well done for at least getting it the right way round, coming to the club, asking advice, then buying.

I cringe when a newbie pops up and says ive just bought this Westfield of a guy in a pub and....

Thats what I did Steve, not from a pub though. I should have gone into it with a bit more thought. having said that I had 3 brill years of motoring with the club. I sold it this summer but can't stop looking at them in the ads, Merry xmas to all at Notts & Derby

Neil

[Bobby Breeze]

I went to my local WSCC meet (Derby & Notts) and chatted to the owners about their cars as I knew next to nothing about Westfields.  I got to sit in some of their cars, was given plenty of advice and kindly taken for a drive in 1 of them.

I ended up buying a factory built '04 1800 zetec from Essex as I didn't mind travelling a distance for the right car.

My 1st behind the wheel drive was around the M25 and up the M1!

Do some research and you'll make the right decision.

Dave.

[John Williams (Panda) - Joint Manchester AO]

I went to my local WSCC meet (Derby & Notts) and chatted to the owners about their cars as I knew next to nothing about Westfields.  I got to sit in some of their cars, was given plenty of advice and kindly taken for a drive in 1 of them.

I ended up buying a factory built '04 1800 zetec from Essex as I didn't mind travelling a distance for the right car.

My 1st behind the drive was around the M25 and up the M1!

Do some research and you'll make the right decision.

Dave.

Exactly come have a beer with the Manchester mob...

I am the Area Organiser and we are always looking for new faces....

my email address is johnpdwilliams@hotmail.com

cheers

John

AKA ickysky

[Paul Hurdsfield - Joint Manchester AO]

Hyah Paul  welcome

It's another Paul from Sunny Manchester here, If you wanna sit in a std Zetec Westy and have a chat about it, I'm in Oldham, cant take you for a run though cos it's sorned    pm me if your interested

[John Williams (Panda) - Joint Manchester AO]

mines not...

its got tinsel on it at the moment looking very festive!

and it went for a drive on saturday.....  

     

John

[Paul Hurdsfield - Joint Manchester AO]

Yeah thats youth and enthusiasm for you  

[nikpro]

Hi Paul, and welcome to the club  

A quick read through some recent posts may well be interesting for you as regards to engine choice!

It's very tempting to let the engine dominate the car by going for the 'latest & greatest' but please don't be 'suckered' in by this.

I notice that you want the car for track driving as well so here goes with my opinion -

A Seven type vehicle should be all about finess and lightweight. A suspension/brake/axle package would always be top of my list when considering a Purchase.

Look for a Car that has he following already fitted:

(1) good shocks ( e.g. Nitron)

(2) Nylon bushes

(3) ARB's (Anti roll bars)

(4) Good brakes (AP or decent pads in M16 callipers)

(5) possibly an LSD (limited slip differential)

(6) Widetrack front suspension

(7) Full safety cage or RAC roll bar

(8) Has had a professional geo set-up.

The above will give a massive improvement when track driving compared to the standard Westfield 'fare' which I would consider as adequate for road use; it would also cost you several thousands of pounds to add these extras yourself!

Second consideration is the build quality of the vehicle; don't always fall for 'factory build' - many members cars on here are far superior in the build quality stakes compared with a factory build so take someone who knows Westfields with you and judge for yourself - age is unimportant as long as it's a quality vehicle.

Then we come to the Engine itself!

The Duratec engine sold by Westfield is, in my opinion slightly over rated. The Engine is good and can be tuned to impressive power outputs but costs money to do this!

Quote from SBD Website:

In truth, the Duratec is great up to a point and the limit is around 245 bhp, although we would suggest that the 2.0 litre shound be rated 230-235 on standard rods and pistons. Yes, you can tune it further but this breakpoint is significant because if you go beyond it the unit's cost-effectiveness goes out of the window.

The engine as a complete package isn't much lighter than the XE or Zetec which can be tuned to produce 200+ bhp for less money - this is more power than you will ever need in a Westfield. Both have proven to be very reliable when running in Westfields and any problems have ususlly been 'ironed out'.

The engine is also not proving to be very reliable in the Caterham race series where the engine is standard; the crank is not keywayed to reduce manufacturing costs and relies on friction to keep it's valve timing correct. Most aftermarket Engine builders add a keywayed crank but this would obviously mean an engine out/strip for yourself!

Further to the above, some owners seem to be having problems with the engine management system fitted to Westfield Duratec's; see thread here:

Duratec misfire

The Duratec very rarely makes the Westfield quoted 200 bhp it's more like 175-180 bhp.

I really like the sigma engine as a trackday engine - it's really very light, compact and revvy, it can also be easilly tuned for more than enough horsepower. (Shawspeed are a good company for this).

regardless of engine choice ensure that the vehicle is easilly mappable - some ECU's are easier than others with the latest and the Webcon Alpha systems apparently being tricky! (Webcon have to go to authorised dealer; which are very limited. We are lucky to have Northampton motorsport  as a dealer (excellent service) although it would be a 350 mile trip for you!!)

Prefferably the seller will have had it mapped anyway as it's vital to the well being of the car (The most important part of the post SVA/IVA checklist IMO) as incorrect fueling can damage an engine severly. Westfield themselves use an Engine Map to pass SVA emissions - it is fairly poor and I would not reccomend using this map for any extended period (1000 miles).

another important consideration for yourself is to look for a track day silencer as noise limits are very strict these days - the standard Westfield exhaust will struggle to pass noise tests on all but the noisiest of days and is also quite restrictive. Silencers are expensive so this is also important as you don't want to spend £200 + on a trackday and not be allowed out on to the circuit!

Silencers loose their packing after a time so also look for a repackable item as this helps with noise as well, again the standard Westfield silencer isn't.  

Check the above list off when you view a car and IMO you won't go far wrong.  

Sorry about the long post (and ensuing war from other members   ) HTH

Fraser