Newbie questions

[ziggywithit]

After getting the Westie bug, no paitence to self build, so bought 2nd hand, and have a few questions;

First venture in the rain, footwells soaked, no sign of a leak from the scuttle, but notice that the Alu on the top of the transmission tunnel is not sealed - is this by design or a build fault ?

Being a southern Jessie, I need a heater. Is heater installation possible (cutting the demister vent holes) without removing the scuttle ?  

The westie is a 98 build, CVH with a type 9 box - Is it usual for the flywheel to be visible beneath the car - suprised there is no cover......

Many thanks.

[John Williams (Panda) - Joint Manchester AO]

Welcome!!!

my panels have been rivited on with a dab of bathroom sealant in between to make it a bit more waterproof.

mine still has a drip but  that is where the scuttle attaches....

the worst for me is the water that kicks up whilst driving hitting the door and up into my arm and bum!!

so a little drip in the footwell isn't a worry

cheers

john

[wizzer]

Hi Zig and welcome

Its normal to get wet in an older car as the sealant might have failed , As for the fly wheel you could make a plate to go between the engine and block ,There was one on my factory cvh so Westfield might have one on a shelf  

Tony

[brindle]

After getting the Westie bug, no paitence to self build, so bought 2nd hand, and have a few questions;

First venture in the rain, footwells soaked, no sign of a leak from the scuttle, but notice that the Alu on the top of the transmission tunnel is not sealed - is this by design or a build fault ?

Being a southern Jessie, I need a heater. Is heater installation possible (cutting the demister vent holes) without removing the scuttle ?  

The westie is a 98 build, CVH with a type 9 box - Is it usual for the flywheel to be visible beneath the car - suprised there is no cover......

Many thanks.

Welcome!!

Get yourself along to the Wilts and Hants local meet tomorrow with your motor and about 10 minutes after you arrive all your problems will be sorted, plus you'll have a shopping list about £6k long!!

Look out for Andy Abbey (Area AO) - Details below

www.wscc.co.uk/area/hants/

[kermit The Frog]

Hello & welcome,

Hows your transition tunnel fixed? If it’s just rivnuts couldn’t you just reseal it with some silicon or a closed cell foam?

Obviously prevention is better than cure, but most folk have a couple of holes drilled in the footwell to allow for drainage.

Ryan

[ziggywithit]

Many thanks all. Useful advice - just back in from re-sealing the tunnel, a little wet to test just now however. Hopefully get along to the Nats & Wilts meet at some point.

[daveac]

You could do the heater without removing the scuttle with a lot of patience - I discovered mine was leaky 10 days pre-SVA so figured that would be easier than taking down screen, scuttle, pillars/mirrors etc etc.

You can do it as long as you take the dash away and then have flexible wrists and hands but it's a tight squeeze getting it between the TT and the bar which runs across the car behind the dash.  Cutting vent holes will be tres fiddly but probably doable with a dremel.  You may have difficulty getting a good seal from the vents to the air manifold - I used silicone (which wasn't strong enough because the manifold was too warped) and then used GRP round the edges.

In short - CHANGING a heater is a pain, installing one from fresh may be impossible!  Besides there'll be plenty along soon who'll tell you not to bother with the extra weight anyway!

HTH

Dave

[markcoopers]

The drip into the foot wells will probably be from water collecting on the shelf at the bulkhead, having run down the scuttle. From here it can run back under the scuttle on to your feet, so seal the scuttle to the shelf. It can run forwards to the bulkhead and then between the ali panels and teh chassi rails, so seal here. Or sideways to either the transmission tunnel area or the side of the tub and yep......into the car at either point......seal this.

On a dry day use lots of silicone sealer and just take your time and do it one edge at atime remembering what you have and have not done.

[Jim1234]

Hi and welcome from another soft southerner - my heater and weather gear have been well used.  I can go out even if the weather looks like rain and touring is no problem.  The heater is great in the winter months and for those early morning and late night drives to and from track days.  .I've heard it said that its the other lot who are soft – that the hood and heater brigade go out in all weathers and go on touring holidays to wet places like North Wales just to guarantee rain - in the words of Clarkson "THEY SAY that those with no hoods and Aeroscreen, only look to go out at the height of summer and then spend so much time checking weather forecasts and drilling holes in their foot-wells that they don't ever have time to go out at all; I’m not sure if that true”; but that's what I heard.

Before I chip in with my advice and experience of wet floor and fitting heaters - one thing I don’t understand is why you haven’t got a heater or the tell tale holes from the two water pipe holes or the 4 bolt holes for the heater?    Unless the car was put thought the SVA/whatever without a windscreen or that an electric fan heater arrangement was used for demisting; I don’t think heated screens were around then, so I assume you don’t have one of those?  I’m only asking because it could have a major impact on the ease of retrofitting a heater/demister and whether you need to demist as well as heat.  I see fitting the demister vents with the scuttle on the car as a bigger problem than fitting the heater.  

My scuttle was fitted per the build manual, buy running a thick/generous bead of silicon sealant all the way round the way round where the scuttle would make contact with the engine bay shelf and the top sides of the side body panel.  I then put the scuttle on top and did up the 4 nuts and bolts - worked well with only a little excess silicon to remove from the body work with a damp cloth.  Next day I trimmed the excess inside the engine bay with a sharp knife.  I have never had water in the car when using it on the road during rain; it has been out in the rain quite often and I've twice been caught out in thunderstorms with very heavy rain with no problems.

The only occasion I have found water in the foot wells (it was over the carpet!) was after parking the car on a steep up-slope (front higher than the back) with the tonneau on; I  think with hindsight was asking for trouble.  The following night I parked facing down hill - and the heavens opened again but next morning it was dry. Oh the fun of going on a touring holiday in Snowdonea in my Westy).   I have also parked many times on level ground with either the tonneau or hood on - when it has rained - and never ever had a problem.

I suspect that the water in my car came under the front lip the tonneau as I ended up with equal depths of water in both foot-wells, it was not a zip problem as the tunnel was dry.  There are two other possible causes that could have caused this to happen or where rain could entre the car from above; the silicone sealant between the wind screen and body or where the windscreen wipers enter the scuttle – I remember that sealing the wiper entry points was a real pain in the butt - and I thought that might have caused my problem, so I would add that to your list.  I tried the good old water hose test around the scuttle screen and wipers but never found any water inside the car.

The only other hole that I can think of that you could check – I nearly missed it during my build - was a hole at the front of the foot-well a little above the bottom cross rail.  It’s not mentioned in the build manual and I think it was a provision for a dual brake master cylinder but cannot be certain, other than it was quite large and round.  But a look down the foot-well in that area with torch in hand and you will see it if its there.    

If it looks like rain and I’m by myself its tonneau on and passenger side screen off with my side of the tonneau behind the seat – that reduces the scale of the problem.  First response to rain is just to drive faster and hope I don’t have to stop for too long.  If that does happen I keep a golf brolly in the car (matching colour of course, as standard have to be maintained).   It is vertical positioned behind the right shoulder and I can use it at traffic lights.  Too much rain or too much stopping in traffic, and its hood up time.  The hood has worked great to keep the rain out; an odd drip past the window pillars but that seems to end up running sideways and outside the car.  My dislikes of having to put the hood up are the big increase in noise and that it can get very hot - strangely there seems very little ventilation so I keep a cloth handy to wipe the window or occasionally run the demister.  

Re the wet shoulder and bum, it’s only happened once when I meet a truck and we passed each other going through a large pool of standing water - now that’s what I call getting your bum wet – it was like a hose pipe had been tucked up under the side screen and turned on full bore!  I remember reading on this board that if this is happening under normal road conditions you should check that the side-screens are correctly fitted with the top horizontal – I have notices a number of Westfield’s where this is angled upwards which raises the bottom rear corner making it easier for water or wind and water to get in.  This side screen alignment issue will be very evident at high speed (100mph plus in my case – yes it was a track day) as the side screen will twist and push itself into the cockpit due to the force of the wind.  A minor adjustment fixed mine.  I guess it is happening to some degree at all road speeds and allowing water to enter to wet the shoulder/bum.   The location of the side screen securing strap, I’m told, can also cause this problem, if for example it’s too far forward.

I think you could retrofit a heater with the scuttle in place if you wanted to, but in my view it would be essential to remove the dash and disconnect it from the instruments to give room to work.  The worst bit will be if the dash is fitted with nuts and bolts rather than ally riv nuts.  If it’s not put them in before you reinstall, as it makes life so easy.  The build manual said the demister units are factory fitted – mine were not - they told me I had to use a particular sealant /bonding material, and not simply to put in with silicone sealant.  It could also be messy having to fit the vent from the underside -  I did mine on table with the scuttle upside down before the windscreen was fitted.   I suspect however, that for peace of mind and doing the job once, and ease of fixing you will remove the scuttle – that’s the route I would take and after the dash is out its only a 4 bolts and the wiper connection wires to take off and it’s done.

[stu999]

QUOTE

one thing I don’t understand is why you haven’t got a heater or the tell tale holes from the two water pipe holes or the 4 bolt holes for the heater?    Unless the car was put thought the SVA/whatever without a windscreen or that an electric fan heater arrangement was used for demisting;

It may be that the car didn't go through SVA; the requirement for a car to be submitted for SVA began in 98...

[Hammy]

There is a thin steel plate as standard on most RWD fords (Escorts etc) fits between the box and the engine, try a wanted add, you might get lucky. A lot of folks don't bother with it tho as its hard to get in place when you offer the engine up to the box.

- I've yet to see a Westfield that stays dry in the rain, usually dryer outside than in with mine. Most people have put their cars away for the winter now as salt protection etc is poor.

- Heater is well worth it IMO if you go out in the cold. You could put in and forget about the screen vents - only really apparently useful if the hoods* up (never used one of those as I'd be gassed by engine fumes and unable to get out)- so maybe far far easier to fit without screen vents???.

* get a tonneau and a plastic mac as advised earlier -keeps the heat around you too!

[Blatman]

QUOTE

There is a thin steel plate as standard on most RWD fords (Escorts etc) fits between the box and the engine, try a wanted add, you might get lucky. A lot of folks don't bother with it tho as its hard to get in place when you offer the engine up to the box.

If the dowels are still in their places, they're a piece of P**s to fit.

If the engine and box are in the car, chop the plate in half between the centres of the dowel holes and fit it in two parts with the engine and box in situ. Did mine like that years ago

Salt protection is *sometimes* bad, but can be improved with a post blat wash down with WD40 or similar. Again, been doing that for years too. Washing a salty car down with *just* water means you simply have lots of salty water sitting around where you may not want it, so be liberal with the WD40

[Rob Navin]

There is a thin steel plate as standard on most RWD fords (Escorts etc) fits between the box and the engine, try a wanted add, you might get lucky. A lot of folks don't bother with it tho as its hard to get in place when you offer the engine up to the box.

If the dowels are still in their places, they're a piece of P**s to fit.

If the engine and box are in the car, chop the plate in half between the centres of the dowel holes and fit it in two parts with the engine and box in situ. Did mine like that years ago

Or get one and cut it so it only bolts up to where the gaps are.

If there are no spare bolt holes in the bellhousing then a couple of rivnuts will take care of the problem

I use to run mine like this with no issues.

Best of both worlds

I think I have on in the garage if you want me to check.