Rory's Dad Posted February 26, 2009 Posted February 26, 2009 We went to the racing car show and Demon Tweeks were able to offer a bit of discount and free delivery on their stuff. Having given myself a good walloping from the Westfield supplied 2" harness on both shoulders and down my chest I thought I'd upgrade to 3"... Anyway the harness turned up yesterday and just looked the business but now I find it's not legal for the road How come a 4 point belt, which just separates into 4 straps by rotating the lever, isn't deemed to be safe on the road?? I have my belts good'n tight and TBH its sometimes a bit of an effort to get my arms out the Westfield one if I'm wearing a thick jacket I suppose going to the racing car show should have given me a hint but I'm not happy 'cos Demon Tweeks didn't check and I've sold one of the Westfield belts on here recently... Will try and sort this out with DT but I invite your comments on yet another seemingly senseless 'rule', your advice on what belt to get (in black) and, possibly, any interest in a brand new harness for your race car!!! Rory's Dad Quote
Mark (smokey mow) Posted February 26, 2009 Posted February 26, 2009 I passed SVA on Tuesday with Willans 3" harnesses and a twisty aircraft buckle, the only markings were FIA and they had no E-marks. The examiner made no comment, but I know the SVA manual allows for non e-marked harnesses to be acceptable if they have "equivalent construction". Quote
combatsapph Posted February 26, 2009 Posted February 26, 2009 Being safe and being legal are two entriely different matters and are not always inter related. I believe the "not for road use" is the lack of red release button - if you crash and somebody needs to help you out of the car, it wont be immediately obvious to them how to release the seat belt. I also believe that not being able to secure the seat belt one handed is also an issue. I need to go and find some links....... As for aircraft buckles passing SVA - it's a similar issue to tyres. As long as the tyres have the correct marking then they will pass - it doesn't matter one iota if they are bald! There are loads of areas where you can have a car pass an SVA test but is technically illegal to use on the road. Having said all the above, I've never known anyone get stopped or fined for "aircraft buckle" harness (I think the coppers are just glad is you use any type of seatbelt) nor have I heard of anyone faillig an MOT with the same harnesses. Brake lights that flash rapidly when braking hard are also technically illegal but the authorities aren't making much noise about that either. Quote
combatsapph Posted February 26, 2009 Posted February 26, 2009 Found the bit I was looking for:- In order for a four-point harness to be lagally used in a road car, it must be marked as being approved to either British Standard BS 3254 or United Nations ECE Regulation 16. As we are only concerned with vehicles for use on the road, we are not certain of the differences between a road and race harness. However, EC Directive 77/541/EEC, para 2.4.2.2 (below) indicates specific requirements for the buckle which must also be released by PRESSING a button or similar device. We think this may be different on a race harness.2.4.2.2. The buckle, even when not under load, shall remain closed, whatever its position. It must not be possible to release it with a force less than 1 daN. The buckle shall be so designed as to be easy to use and to grasp. It shall be capable of being released when under the load specified in 2.7.9.2. The buckle shall be released by pressing either a button or a similar device. The surface to which this pressure is applied must have the following dimensions with the button in the release position and when projected into a plane perpendicular to the button's initial direction of motion: — for enclosed devices, an area of not less than 4,5 cm2 and a width of not less than 15 mm, — for non-enclosed devices, an area of not less than 2,5 cm2 and a width of not less than 10 mm. This area shall be coloured red. No other part of the buckle shall be of this colour. ]http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...0070101:EN:PDF Bit's in bold are relevant here I believe - I don't believe an aircraft buckle would be a "similar device" as the method of operation is fundementally different. Colour would also be an issue - I don't think I've seen an aircraft buckle in red. Quote
Rory's Dad Posted February 26, 2009 Author Posted February 26, 2009 Having said all the above, I've never known anyone get stopped or fined for "aircraft buckle" harness (I think the coppers are just glad is you use any type of seatbelt) nor have I heard of anyone faillig an MOT with the same harnesses. It's the MOT bit that concerned me... Anyone had a problem with one of these at MOT time?? Rory's Dad Quote
N_J Posted February 26, 2009 Posted February 26, 2009 Would this have any implications on insurance .. i.e having non E marked belts in a car if the unfortunate occasion happened and you needed to claim and they inspected the car ? After a Mallory a couple of yeras back I as going to get 5/6 points fitted but cant find any that meet the 'road legal' type of RED button harnesses. Any suggections ? Thanks Quote
combatsapph Posted February 26, 2009 Posted February 26, 2009 Would this have any implications on insurance Only if they could prove that they were a contributory factor to the accident or any injuries sustained were a result of the harness. Quote
Rory's Dad Posted February 26, 2009 Author Posted February 26, 2009 I tell you what - the Sabelt looks really safe and easy to remove in a hurry. After my accident I needed to get out quickly as the fuel tank had been punctured and I would much have preferred not to have needed a moment or two to extract myself from the Westfield 4 point (or to wait till the stars cleared ) I'll get it bolted in this weekend... Rory's Dad Quote
peterg Posted February 26, 2009 Posted February 26, 2009 QUOTE looks really safe and easy to remove in a hurry. Yeah, funnily enough that's why they're fitted to racing cars... I had 4 point Willans harnesses in my Westfield with an aircraft release buckle and didn't have a problem with MOTs plus they're a lot safer than an inertia reel and a lot easier to get in and out of than the standard factory harness - the red button bit is for numpties, I'm sure 99% of the population could work out how to undo the harness buckle if you were unconscious Quote
N_J Posted February 26, 2009 Posted February 26, 2009 Could always paint the release buckle red Quote
Jeff2 Posted February 26, 2009 Posted February 26, 2009 Hi Martin I fitted 3" Sabelt harnesses because I think safety is more important than compliance Colin Quote
Mark Purves Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 Remember Insurance companies will always look for a way not to pay. Quote
combatsapph Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 Remember Insurance companies will always look for a way not to pay. They will always try but they are very rarely successful, unless you bend over and take it without complaint. Quote
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