Credit Crunch and Alternative energy Speed Series

[Terry Everall]

Leave it alone as Richard says!

I competed in NSCC last year and won the Harrry Driver trophy for fast car outright in 10 events against single seaters and everybody

BUT their overall championship uses target times for each class based upon class records.

I broke 5 class records last year but could only manage 8th overall. The first 7 were tin tops!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So you pays your money and takes your chance and enjoy the crack and friendship of Westfield members which is second to none.

Lets have a debate if needed but remember to win you need a great car, a bit of luck, boatloads of money, a bit of skill and total commitment. With only some of these you can still have a fantastic time pushing yourself and your car to the limit and beyond. Its not all about money and which class you are in but the buzz you get from it .

I have competed in sailing , windsurfing, horse jumping etc and the same issues of money and commitment arise

Have a good season

[Scottish Bloke]

I competed in NSCC last year and won the Harrry Driver trophy for fast car outright in 10 events against single seaters and everybody

BUT their overall championship uses target times for each class based upon class records.

I broke 5 class records last year but could only manage 8th overall. The first 7 were tin tops!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So you pays your money and takes your chance and enjoy the crack and friendship of Westfield members which is second to none.

Lets have a debate if needed but remember to win you need a great car, a bit of luck, boatloads of money, a bit of skill and total commitment. With only some of these you can still have a fantastic time pushing yourself and your car to the limit and beyond. Its not all about money and which class you are in but the buzz you get from it .

I have competed in sailing , windsurfing, horse jumping etc and the same issues of money and commitment arise

Have a good season

Terry, I couldn't have put it better myself    

Mr Stanton....Baldrick has to stick      

[Mark Stanton]

2009 Awards has a trophy listed already                      

[peterg]

QUOTE

I have competed in sailing , windsurfing, horse jumping

Oh my god, now I have an image of Terry in a wetsuit in my head...        

[barney]

it was the poor horse i was thinking about...      

[Mark Stanton]

Roy Rogers and Trigger or possibly Hi Ho Silver and awaaaaayyyy                  

[woodman]

I think the x/flow v 16v class issue needs putting into perspective.

It is still possible to be competitive in class 2a at an event with a x/flow of approx 140-150hp provided it is well set up.

However I agree that it is unlikely that you would be able to win on the day but a 2nd or 3rd should still be achievable.

But  dont think that changing to a 16v will make you win because a std zetec/4age/vx/etc is only about the same power as a typical tuned x/flow .So unless you can afford to upgrade your 16v to approx 200hp at a cost of about 4k-6k you will still not win, and even if you did spend the money you still have to out drive the existing class leaders (who all have 200hp.)

Correctly setting up the car by taking advise from people such as Garry Smith and Ash Mason will reap dividends with lower lap times and a car that is more enjoyable to drive.

There will always be someone who has more power , with a well set up car and is a better driver  so why not just enjoy the car you have and work on lowering your PB at an event.

Although an 8valve/150hp class would suit me I dont think it would encourage newbies to compete more because there are already novice awards that these competitors would be eligable for.

[machin]

Exactly..... an "untuned" modern car engine of between 1800 and 2000cc sits in the 130-150bhp bracket.... the same as a good xflow or other 8v engine.... Westfield sell a lot of these cars, and there's lots of them available second hand.  A class which caters for them means that people can truly be competitive for years to come without spending 4-6k on the engine.  Stick in a minimum weight rule too (OK, this would be slightly harder to police) and it would be possible that people could use their standard road car without stripping it right down (potentially affecting the re-sale value of their car)

...If it were scored in the same way as the current A and B classes (amalgamated into the normal classes before allocating scores) what is the affect?  To those people who have already (or want to in the future) upgraded their engine (as everyone likes to go faster) it makes NO DIFFERENCE.... the <150bhp cars will still only win overall if they are faster than everyone else in the category... exactly as they are now.... so basically it doesn't affect the people who've already spent on their engine/stripped thier car.

To those people who fall in the <150bhp group it means you have something extra to compete for, and you know the car will remain competitive for years to come without spending k's/stripping your beloved road car.

I know everyone thinks I'm trying to look after my interests, but actually as I'm in class A this doesn't really affect me since A is very competitive if you have a Xflow.... the real people who benefit are those currently in C who have <150bhp, and (I believe) a <150bhp category would really promote the WSCC speed series as a championship which provides very low cost, competitive motorsport for years to come......

I'll admit that originally I suggested replacing engine displacement as the method of sub-dividing the categories with the power output... and I would still argue, from a technical point of view (and from a results point of view) that displacement doesn't differentiate performance... However, I can see that this suggestion hasn't gone down well, hence the suggestion for the method of scoring above, which actually changes nothing about the current speed series, except that those who don't want to spend/strip (!) don't need to and still have something to compete for...

TAXI!!!

[Mark Stanton]

QUOTE

and still have something to compete for...

You're the current front runner for an extra curricula trophy already Mr M                

[machin]

....I'm not even going to guess........    

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

Richard, the concept of your idea sounds great and is music to everyone who want's to curtail costs ears.

BUT, the inplications of policing it are horrendous, as a club we would have to find a way of ensuring the "few" don't spend the money, but claim the engine has not been tuned, just to win. In the worst case senario this would mean an eligibility scrutineer coming to every one of our events at considerable cost ie £ 2,500 to £ 5,000 per year. I have looked at this and those costs are if anything low ball-park wise. This is without paying for the engine strip downs which we will inevitably have to do. We could even get a rolling road along, but again cost and how do you ensure you get the "right" competitor there ?

So my view on things like this is that they must be 1) simple to administer 2) No on-cost to the club

You must also consider that we compete in a wider playingfield, with other competitions going on around ours on the day. So I believe we should also try and align ourslves to those rules, where we can. That way the best of our drivers have chances of winning wider and more national awards and therefore progressing though the sport.

I also think that one of the great things about Sprinting and Hillclimbing is the lack of rules. You see some fantastic cars out there that just would not be allowed to compete anywhere else. You also see some very clever "homebrewed" solutions to making cars faster, often costing very little, but very effective. So I vote for keeping the rules to a minimum and having a more diverse range of cars.

[Mid life crisis]

Seems to be some considerable resistance to low cost competition at the moment Machin. Never mind, things might change as entries fall and peeps start opting for track days instead of ss events.

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

Seems to be some considerable resistance to low cost competition at the moment Machin. Never mind, things might change as entries fall and peeps start opting for track days instead of ss events.

Please don't take my comments the wrong way, if it can be done then great. It's just how ? yet satsfying the cirteria of easy to administer and no or low cost ?

[peterg]

Nick, the problem is that lots of people think they can turn up to events and 'it just happens' without the slightest idea of what goes into organising a championship or even just a single event...

I know it came as a surprise to me last year just how much effort went into getting Curborough together - and I was stupid enough to volunteer again this year    

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

Know exactly what you mean Pete, says he who is about to sit down to a couple of hours entering comeptitors into database and sending regs out.     another late night, when I would rather be doing something else.