Credit Crunch and Alternative energy Speed Series

[machin]

Ok, I’m putting myself up for a bit of a pelting… but a combination of: 1, its been a while since I suggested it, 2, current economic climate, 3, environmental issues and 4, posts on other threads, I thought maybe it was the time to suggest it again!

Wouldn't it be great if:-

1, Low budget cars had equal footing with high-budget cars?

2, Cars with alternative energy sources could compete equally?

3, Car's with equal performance competed against eachother?

4, The performance differences were easily policeable?

All of which can be achieved with..........

Power based divisions within the Speed Series categories (road-going, Mod Prod, & Racing), rather than engine displacement based divisions

Right I’ve said it!  Obviously its WAY too late for this year, but its something to think about over the next season!  Reasons for suggestion:-

1, Wouldn’t it be great if a people with “standard” cars could race each other equally in their own class?  Westfield supplies many cars in the 100-150bhp bracket… including the new MX-5 based car…. It would be great to think that these people could be encouraged to compete, and have a very good chance of winning, not only in their first few years in the Novice categories, but also in the non-novice categories for many years to come without a large financial outlay?  A minimum weight could also be introduced in the road-going category so that people don’t need to strip down their nice road car to be competitive (personally I’d gladly put ballast back into my car if it needed it to make the minimum)…  I’ve had a bit of a look through the various tuning companies on the web and what I find is that:- A standard 130bhp Zetec is £750, new from Ford. A dry-sumped, ITB injected 300bhp 2 litre Duratec is £12k+.  A standard type 9 is £50 off Ebay…. A Quaife QBE60G H-pattern gearbox (type 9 replacement), with alloy maincase and bellhousing is £6.5k…. A carbon nose cone is £500…. I worked out that it was possible to almost triple the power:weight ratio of a “standard” 2 litre Westfield… but the additional cost on top of the car was £27k! (and it would still be eligible for class B/D).

2, How will new power sources be integrated into the current categories? With Westfield themselves encouraging alternative energy supplies in the form of the new Westfield electric race series, how long will it be before someone wants to sprint one of these vehicles?  The Power-based divisions will make it easy to slot these vehicles into a category where they can be compete equally.

3, Is Engine Displacement a good indicator of engine performance?  An 850cc MotoGP engine makes 200bhp.  A modern American 4 litre V8 makes about 200bhp….. Just looking at the 2008 results shows that actually there’s very little difference between the quick guys in the lower capacity classes and the quick guys in the upper capacity classes, and its not uncommon for the lower capacity classes to be quicker……

4, Policeablilty Last time I suggested it one reason against the idea was policeability, but as Mark Stanton suggested on another thread – its almost impossible to police a category based on displacement….  On the other hand an induction system based ruling is something a simple look under the bonnet can check:- Just a quick scan through (the rather excellent) Four Stroke Performance Tuning book by A.Graham Bell shows that a 4 cylinder engine with individual runner manifold on 34mm chokes (i.e. 40DCOE’s or the equivalent) is limited to about 150bhp…. A car with a single 47mm throttle plate and plenum based manifold (i.e. standard production engine arrangement) also is limited to about 150bhp, a car with one 35mm-twin-choke carb mounted on a single-plane manifold is also limited to about 150bhp….. so there’s an instantly policeable way of estimating maximum horse power (obviously it doesn’t say anything about minimim horsepower as anyone could bolt a huge throttle body onto the weediest engine!). We can always use one of the Tuning Firm Speed Series sponsors to suggest the different requirements… they must have lots of independent data.  

Finally, my thougts on another suggestion:-

5, Wouldn’t a class for 8-valve engines be better?/  But that’s not fair on the people with modern 16v engines who also have 100-150bhp and don’t want/can’t afford to upgrade their engine….. Horsepower is horsepower regardless of what engine is making it…. and anyway, as pointed out by others, it IS possible to have very powerful 8V engines…. They just cost a hell of a lot of money!

Ready for the pelting now…….

[Mark Stanton]

don't think you need a pelting Richard .......... just need to get out more          

Seriously though what you suggest would possibly be perfection in an ideal world      and it just ain't possible   without wishing to patronise your efforts they are quite naive and inexperienced in assuming everyone will abide by the rules, sorry chap it doesn't happen like that - as friendly and helpful as the SS is, people still want to win and will do everything possible to do so including manipulation of rules - the more rules included the more manipulation can be done  

Plus do you realise and understand the amount of work involved inorganisng any championship and do you think you're the first with these ideas

Even in championships such as the Locost which is strictly controlled and uses 1300 Xflow standard engines the lengths that drivers go to to get an extra 1BHP or 1 oz of weight saved would make your eyes water  

What you have never fully experienced is an SS Awards Do where many drivers achievements are recognised and that includes best 8 valve which has been awarded in the past when merited and before you ask no it won't be listed in the regs  

Now get yourself down the pub before Mr Pocklington drags you down there  

Besides me and Richard Kerr have already agreed to ballast and weight penalties being applied to anyone under 16 stone    

[machin]

Thanks for the answer Mark, I hope you don't think I'm being argumentative, but can I give a response without causing offence? :-

people still want to win and will do everything possible to do so including manipulation of rules

But there's no difference here than a displacement based rule, which as you suggested in another thread is impossible to police....

do you think you're the first with these ideas

Nope, the post was actually inspired by another SS competitor who suggested an 8v class in another thread (I don't agree with that, but do agree with his intentions of suggesting a class for cars which don't need the earth spent on them), and another SS competitor who has suggested going the Formula Ford route, simply to limit the amount of expenditure to make his car competitive.....

the lengths that drivers go to to get an extra 1BHP or 1 oz of weight saved would make your eyes water  

I can well believe it..... but is that a reason to give in?  I'm not suggesting we'd bump all cars with 1bhp over the "limit" up to another category, simply that 100bhp MX-5 based cars wouldn't be directly competing against 300bhp Cosworth Duratec Cars.  I'm also not suggesting that people who want to build really quick cars should be discouraged from doing so.... people like to go quicker, otherwise people wouldn't compete in the racing categories when they know someone in the road-going classes is just as likely to win the championship overall....

Besides me and Richard Kerr have already agreed to ballast and weight penalties being applied to anyone under 16 stone    

Sounds fair to me....... I'd agree to that (if the car performance was also equalised, as I suggest above   )

Plus do you realise and understand the amount of work involved inorganisng any championship

Been thinking about this..... I think I've let the cat out of the bag that I like Excel (probably a bit too much) and I don't get to the pub much, so if you need someone to administer the points table, I'd be more than happy to take on this role for 2009?

[peterg]

QUOTE

simply that 100bhp MX-5 based cars wouldn't be directly competing against 300bhp Cosworth Duratec Cars

but putting 300bhp through List 1A tyres would mean so much wheelspin that the little MX5 powered car may well be quicker anyway    apart from on 'power' circuits like Goodwood and Aintree etc  

[Mid life crisis]

Totally agree with your thoughts Machin. It will be interesting to see how many people with sub 150bhp or basic 8 valve cars compete in C & D this year. In this economic climate a lot of people are watching the pennies, and to enter a championship class, against more developed and powerful machinery, with little chance of a result is just a waste of money.

May be classes A & B should be utilized for owners who have decided not to spend shed loads on their hobby, and wish to run less developed machinery. Novice awards after all could be calculated as they are for all other classes now.

This would then leave C & D for the more exotic machinery, competing against similar cars.

[cast iron]

you can get 200 bhp from a 1.6 8 valve engine and there will always be someone with money who does it

A quicker and easier response to the credit crucnh IMHO is to cut the number of points scoring rounds from 10 to 8 for this year?

[Matt Seabrook]

The BHP one is a good idea it would get my mate out of the class and stop beating me with leess power

[machin]

you can get 200 bhp from a 1.6 8 valve engine and there will always be someone with money who does it

I agree, which is why I suggest a specific 8-valve class ISN'T the way to go....  however a 4 cylinder car with an isolated runner manifold and maximum 34mm chokes couldn't make anywhere near 200bhp (according to all the literature around... but maybe our speed series Sponsors (SBD?) would be able to provide their experience on this aspect).

BTW I definitely agree with your 8 scoring rounds suggestion.....

[Pistol Pete]

Steve Cox from Borough 19 Motor Club has set up a handicapping system for the Shake Down sprint. He has used this  for the TVR championship which consists of handicapping car based on Weight, BHP and Tyres so in theory a standard mini has a chance of beating a westfield or single seater.

The shakedown sprint is on 1st March and should provide some interesting results, he is planning to run the cars in batches which according to his calculations should be similar speed then publish the real time along with the handicap adjusted one. I'll forward the details and results after if you want.

Pete

[Arm]

The BHP suggestion is debatable as peak BHP which is what you might wish to cap shows only a small characteristic of engine performance. The torque level throughout the rev range is important and yet that is never mentioned.

It would not be difficult to tune an engine to give fantastic driveability and performance yet not show high peak hp figures.

Peak bhp figures are meaningless and would put unnecessary control on your regulations.

Inlet restrictions will however cap hp yet money can still be spent to deliver the best torque curve so in the end you are back to square one and people still have the same problem of money wins.

[Mark Stanton]

Whilst you're key thing appears to allow cars to compete at budget level.

May I point out that Tim Pennington won the championship using a 1700 X-flow and was on a very tight budget

Stuart Hill and Tim Nunn but to name two others are always in the frame when it comes to class honours ......... again budget motorsport.

Richard rather than trying to radically change a championship to suit your needs why not take a leaf from the books of Tim, Stu and Nunny and adapt and train yourself to make best use of your car and ability.................. or find a championship that is organised the specific way you wish and see if you can win that  

Bear in mind that to win and do well in any championship you have to enter quite a few events throughout the year not just 3 or 4

Anyway pubs open and you need a drink              

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

Another "I cant afford it / can justify spending it so lets change the rules to bring everyone down to my level" thread  

As suggested, it would be better to reduce the number of scoring rounds down from 10

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

There is also going to be a Battery Powered car competing in the Britixh Hillclimb championship, hopefully this year. But if you think that is going to be cheap motoring think again. It will cost a packet.

As to the number of scoring rounds, I can see where everybody is coming from, but as I reported at the awards Do, the average number of rounds by Speed Series drivers increased from 5.5 in 2007 to 6.5 in 2008, hence no change in 2009. But it will of course be considered at the end of the year, in light of what actually happens this year, rather than just boardroom gossip

[peterg]

yeah, next they'll be asking for a class for dark red cars only    

[Mark Stanton]

Now that sounds a good idea