Westfield Sales

[jak]

     

[DanB]

QUOTE

If they want to be taken as a serious sports car by people on the fringes of main stream motoring they need a product that is almost completely bespoke and move away from the 'you strip this old car, cut, weld, bend the bits and put them on this chassis with a new fibreglass tub' kit car mentality.

However, if you want to make money, rather than participate in a dick-swinging contest to see who can be taken most 'seriously', then you provide the public with what they want to buy.  I don't imagine that Westfield give a flying one what 'people on the fringes of main stream motoring' think, as that's not their target market.  People who want to 'strip this old car etc.' are their target market and if they've got any sense they'll stick with what they know and do well.

Jeez, and I don't even own a Westie...  

[Arm]

You stated

QUOTE

and if you're a VW dealer, you'll be supporting the 40% sales downturn that VAG owned Bentley are currently suffering

and thats not correct as VW dealers do not support anyone other than themselves, cars are wholesaled to a dealer and the dealer retails them.

QUOTE

Bentley are by definition propped up by VW as they own them.....and have financed all the factory modernisation and new model strategy that Bentley have undertaken and are currently developing.....

Bentley return a profit and have done for a number of years. They have borrowed money to modernise the plant and develop new vehicles same as any business might. That profit pays the loans off. That was a good business decision for both parties.

Those are the facts.

[Mark Stanton]

Eve'nin Mr M ........  

[Arm]

Evening Sir

[cast iron]

and its not about profit, you can be profitable as the auto maker I work for is, but if you have no cash flow it could be curtains!

Hence making a quick turnover on things like parts is an area where companies need to be efficient.

[Cleggy the Spyder Man]

net profit = cashflow  

[lippydave]

Bentley return a profit and have done for a number of years. They have borrowed money to modernise the plant and develop new vehicles same as any business might. That profit pays the loans off. That was a good business decision for both parties.

Those are the facts.

Yes, I know I've worked there in design, twice for a couple of years.....

and received the same company briefings you're quoting from....

Fact remains, Bentley are paying off their loan to VAG, (who are their parent company).....

So the fact is that Bentley are in debt to the VAG group.

Their sales are currently like everyone else's..ie not too clever.

Big corporations tend to get itchy trigger fingers when it comes to protecting their own...Surely if Herr Wiedekin gets an itchy finger it's a likely bet that non-German parts of the group will be first to be sold off..?

(Being Devil's Advocate here btw), I sincerely hope that Bentley turn huge profits and ride the rough, (I'd quite like another stint there thanks!) but I'm looking at the big picture and there is definitely potential for a sodding disaster.....

Take a look at Aston....  

At the moment I'm at Jaguar/Land Rover and it ain't too clever here either...In fact it's a challenge to find a manufacturer who isn't suffering.....

That was however, my original point before getting facetious   , smaller manufacturers such as Westfield are less likely to hit rocky ground as they have less debt, and more managable volumes... Bentley broke though the 10,000 vehicles per annum for the last two years, I don't think it will happen this time around unfortunately.

For my own self-interest, ( I've been a freelance automotive design consultant for the last 25 odd years 12 years of which in Das Vaterland, worked for  Volvo, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, Opel,Nissan, Bentley, Jaguar, Land Rover and others), I don't want to see any manufacturer go down the tubes, but that doesn't preclude me from a dose of realism....

Rose tinted spec's won't save anyone from "George and Gordon's Brave New World of Fiscal Twattism"....  

[lippydave]

and if you're a VW dealer, you'll be supporting the 40% sales downturn that VAG owned Bentley are currently suffering

and thats not correct as VW dealers do not support anyone other than themselves, cars are wholesaled to a dealer and the dealer retails them.

So you're suggesting that selling VW's to dealers (who then sell onto J.Public Esq), doesn't generate revenue for VAG?

...and that falling Bentley sales won't mean a slowdown in their repayments to VAG?

...and that VAG won't look to make-up the shortfall somewhere?

Or that the profit VAG generate by selling cars to the dealer won't go towards VAG's own interest payments on it's debts?

Or that Porsche with it's 51% + controlling interest in VAG won't get a bit of a wobble on?

Worldwide Automobile manufacturing is a great big incestuous self-devouring circle...

The knee bone's connected to the....  

[nikpro]

Nikpro....It beats me why you have ever owned a westfield...

Scott,

when I built the Westfield, Westfield sports Cars was a familly run business who's owner had 'motorsport' running through his veins.

Westfield had recently launched the Sport 2000s and their module builds were the Sport 2000 and the 1800 Sport.

The Sport 2000s was an awesome car; it received a slight chassis redesign and offered serious competition to the Caterham Models at the time; so much so that the price differential was not justified and the Westfield was the better buy.

The Sport 2000 and 1800 Sport were very good quality modular kits and Westfield had started supplying top line components such as the Nitron Shocks and AP racing brakes along with a well designed front Widetrack. They appeared to be moving in all the right directions.

Further to that their customer service was legendary (I must admit that I still have not had any problem with ordering parts)

Even their SDV at the time, based on the Sierra, offered significant handling improvements over the donor vehicle. (With the sierra getting older I did think they might drop the SDV option as it was the only model left keeping them firmly in the old Kit-car ethos)

In 2008 westfield have dropped the Sport 2000s from their line up and now have nothing to compete with Caterham's flagships especially since Caterham have moved foward with a different engine make.

Westfield is now owned by financial investors that are spending money on buying other marques rather than improving the Westfield and the SDV is based on an MX5? (They are definately now a 'jack of all trades')

I can buy an MX5 for £400 and if I spent £2,000 on fitting a race spec kit to it would lap faster than any SDV Westfield - if I spent £6000 on it I would have a truly awesome track/road car with 200+bhp and sublime handling to match - it could also be used everyday without a problem.

The only advantage it can offer to a purchaser is the body style - my arguement is there are numerous other seven makes out ther go and buy one of them if this is the type of car you want - the Westfield version offers no significant handling improvement and some handle better (Fisher/Sylva etc.)

I watched TopGear and would love to see a Westfield being featured there but the way the company is heading it won't happen. (let's face it Caterham have had 10-15 mins of free TV advertising which would cost some money normally and it won't have hurt their sales at all!)

The skill of some of the Westfield Builders out there is not in dispute and there are some superbly turned out cars from all budgets - it's  just not the way i would like the company to be heading.

I want to improve my car but at the moment Westfield are not doing any development that would assist with this.

I would love Westfield to develop their own Gearbox/bellhousings to mate to their car engines with a good set of gear ratio's designed for a lightweight sports car, rather than me having to cut and shut existing parts and use a reconditioned type 9 from the jurasic age.

(Again most people have made a really decent job of these instals but wouldn't it have been nice for Westfield to have done a bespoke part rather than buying GTM or a Cobra Rep?)

I have never understood people who have brand loyalty - you are just shooting yourself in the foot! If I was purchasing at the moment I would not be buying a Westfield as it simply is not the best 7 type car - I would pick Caterham.

Another poster has said that anyone who spends £30,000 on a Seven is mad - there are many people on this boardroom that will have spent close to that and again TOPGEAR voted the R500 @ £35,000 as the car of the year on the value for money front.

I think ULTIMA and the GDT70 are perfect examples of what I am trying to say and the direction I would like to see Westfield moving.

[Carl]

QUOTE

That was however, my original point before getting facetious   , smaller manufacturers such as Westfield are less likely to hit rocky ground as they have less debt, and more managable volumes

They may have less actual debt, but it may be the same % off revenue as compared to larger manufacturers.

The problem is small companies have less leverage due to tiny volumes, this will result in un-sympathetic banks, parts cost going up etc.

[lippydave]

I have never understood people who have brand loyalty - you are just shooting yourself in the foot! If I was purchasing at the moment I would not be buying a Westfield as it simply is not the best 7 type car - I would pick Caterham.

Another poster has said that anyone who spends £30,000 on a Seven is mad - there are many people on this boardroom that will have spent close to that and again TOPGEAR voted the R500 @ £35,000 as the car of the year on the value for money front.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Westfield is the best seven type car.

My interpretation is that a Westfield is the most cost effective way of building/purchasing a  suitable 7 with a level of performance to suit individual budgets.

I opined that anyone contemplating spending 30k on a seven is a bit deluded...

Hey, it's only my opinion, and people are entitled to spend their own money however they see fit.....

I just think a 30k seven is a bit like winning the crap prize on Bullseye.....Then some Jim Bowen stylee geezer throws back a curtain and shows you what you could have had for 30k....    

goodness me for 30k I reckon you could build a decent Westie with 90% of the perfornmace of an R500 and still have 15k left over to buy a used 996 911....

[steve_m]

Same old same old . . .  

[stephenh]

It fascinates me how many people want to tell the owners of a family owned company how they should run it! Nobody makes us buy a Westfield, but we have all chosen to do so (except those few who have either bought a TVR or have gone over to the Darkside!). Some of us are on very tight budgets and some are able to spend quite a lot on their toy, but all of us I hope have fun in them. Me, I bought mine for my own reasons, and spent quite a lot of money on it because I wanted, and could afford, a brand new and high spec. car. I wanted something seriously fast, and I've got it, and for a lot less money than the equivalent spec cateringvan would have been. But I'm not decrying cateringvans, if you want one have one, and I'm sure that it will be just as much fun.

I think they're both super cars, and long may both makes survive, and compete. My car was new, new engine, the lot, and pound for pound I dont believe there is another new car capable of giving the same "Bangs for the Buck". The only one which gets anywhere near close would have been the nearest equivalent cateringvan.

I think the people at the factory are great people to deal with, and very approachable. Maybe they get overbusy at times, and so can sometimes be hard to get hold of, but that is like so many businesses, particularly sucessful busy ones.

[tonyl42]

It's equally fascinating that so many people have wished to contribute to this thread.  As owners, we do, in a sense, have some 'equity' in the business.  If it were to fail, we would not suffer to anything like the extent of the workforce, but there would still be a loss of 'equity'. (No parts, no back-up, loss of residual value..).

It is much easier to generate business from existing customers than to find new ones, particularly in this economic climate.  Therefore it seems reasonable to me to draw WF's attention to opportunities that are currently being missed.  This is not at all the same thing as trying to run their business - it's trying to protect our 'equity'.

In any case, there is clearly quite a lot of motor industry experience out there amongst WF owners - 38 years in my case- and we are providing it free of charge

And BTW, net profit is not the same as cash-flow.  You can make a profit, and still run out of cash... As a dealer, try asking your bank to fund additional used car stock at the moment, or as a manufacturer, if the bank will provide cash  for new vehicle development.  Rick Wagoner of GM, or Alan Mulally of Ford will give you the answer.