Westfield Sales

[lippydave]

This is exactly my point though - a Westfield is seen as a kit car where as a Caterham is not.

It's because you can build an SDV for less than £8,000? that a £30,000 Westfield will not hold any residuals - why spend £20,000 on a used Westfield when you can have a new Westfield for less than £8,000; it's still a Westfield!

The cheap end of the Westfield market is badly devaluing the quality end IMO.

I beg to differ....

Outside of the "geeks and nerds"   who drive sevenesque cars, I think you'll find that the majority of the great unwashed consider Caterham a kit-car company....

(IMHO whether or not it's true is down to your individual perception of what constitutes a kit-car..)

Remember we're playing to the band here, anyone who's reading this forum is likely pretty well au-fait with the various brands of "7".

So we're looking to drag in fresh customers from outside the "scene".

A lot of people I work with can't believe that folk will pay 30k plus for a bit of scaffold tube with an engine and body draped over it..(and these are pretty hard-bitten petrol-heads within the car manufacturing industry...).

You can buy a v.nice 911 Carrera 2 for waaay less than that, and that's the logic that a lot of people will attach to buying an upmarket Seven IMHO.

Maybe if Potenza want a separate upmarket brand they should use the GTM brand as a fresh start?

I'll bet my wife's left t*t that the cheaper Westies outsell the "prestige" versions by a considerable factor over the next 12 months.....  

Surely one of the beauties of the Westfield is that you can take an 8k Westie and evolve it into a 30k spec' Westie at a pace to suit yourself....Hence the well known -upgrade-itis phenomenon?    

[lippydave]

Ferrari are in profit so they aint that bad compared to GM, Ford Chrysler etc.

Agreed, which is why I'd rather be a VW dealer

I

...and if you're a VW dealer, you'll be supporting the 40% sales downturn that VAG owned Bentley are currently suffering....  

[nikpro]

I personally don't think Caterham are viewed as Kit Cars anymore?

They are seen as exceptional performance cars unlike Westfields.(This is a shame because some are extremely good whilst others are cobbled together nails with a mis match of 30 year old components)

[Carl]

every car maker is being hit, examples;

Honda - only 12 production days planned until April 2009

Toyota - 35% reduction in build plan next year

Vauxhall - Potential 9 months production holiday

I work in the Industry and at the moment it is truely scarey. Our plan for next year has reduced 40% in 3 months and this is without loosing any buisness, just the planned decreases. (and I suspect it isn't the end of the reductions)

I worry for small companies without a strong financial base.

[Triton]

If their prices for certain things weren't so damn high then they would sell more...£250 for a nosecone!!!

[perksy]

I personally don't think Caterham are viewed as Kit Cars anymore?

They are seen as exceptional performance cars unlike Westfields.(This is a shame because some are extremely good whilst others are cobbled together nails with a mis match of 30 year old components)

Makes you wonder why Caterham would want to exhibit at Stoneleigh then    

As Traditionally it's a 'Kit car' show

Think Joe public get's them mixed up most of the time anyway          

As for some Westfields being " ... cobbled together nails with a mis match of 30 year old components"

I've seen some poorly turned out Caterhams    

Beleive their both performance cars that can embarass more exotic machinery on road and track

and both sets of owners have alot of fun with them

Which at the end of the day is what it's all about          

Just my 2p    

[Arm]

QUOTE

..and if you're a VW dealer, you'll be supporting the 40% sales downturn that VAG owned Bentley are currently suffering..

Not true !

[combatsapph]

QUOTE

The cheap end of the Westfield market is badly devaluing the quality end IMO.

I resent that - I'm sure my SDV would embarass a few home built modular kits in the "quality" stakes.  As would MCB's and many others SDV's I reckon.

[markcoopers]

While we were displaying at Exeter this year, we had a 10year old car on the stand, and we were mistaken for the factory by more than one member of the paying public (so assume know a bit about kit cars). This struck me that the Quality part is inherent, but needs to be nurtured by each owner. David had nearly polished the gel coat off of his and the glare from the chrome was mesmerising.

So i am not really swayed by the argument that quality is suffering by having cheap cars, as these cheap/ older cars can still be stunning.

Does an SDV dilute the brand.......i think this depends on your point of reference, does a Polo Fox dilute the Gold GTI, or are they different and both good at what they are supposed to do? No dilution, but rather a swelling of support for the brand values by the increased range of supporters. The Focus ST driver does not think less of the Golf GTI because of the Fox. Personally i don't believe it does, more Westfields the merry in my book

It was said earlier that a car can be evolved, and that is very much part of the brand, individuals being able to ape halo models. The fact that Westfield offer a halo and a bread and butter version  + the bits inbetween is what will help them ride out recesion beter than most.

As to the question about why spend £30k when you can £8K, is rather missleading. i understand the point being made, but the simplistic question will never arise. I simply can not see an individual with £30k burning a hole deciding not too because they can do that with £8K, or going else where because Westfield offered the option to. Anyone with £30k in the market for a 7, will have a number of factors high on their list, Performance/massive speed would be the first. Sure others exist like: Support and upgrades, proven race winning ability, a club/activities to do with it when you own it, I could go on. The point is performance means "branded known components, new, and engine numbers worth mentioning in the pub". Everyone knows these are ££££££££, the suppliers spend a fortune making sure. Indeed this marketing hype is so good it is why i spend many an hour in the evening trying to talk "newbies" out of so called upgrades for brakes etc when in fact they are worst than what they alrady have.

I'll get off me soap box now, it's a little high for my liking.

[Mark Stanton]

QUOTE

Not true !

So many wealthy footie players around Mr M      

I see a white bling one has appeared at Villa training ground        

[lippydave]

..and if you're a VW dealer, you'll be supporting the 40% sales downturn that VAG owned Bentley are currently suffering..

Not true !

Where is the error?

VAG own Bentley...

and Bentley are definitely 40% down on sales in the last  quarter....

I was thinking of going back to work there for a short period after Chrimbo, but thought I may as well stay where I am as the whole of the UK based car manufacturers are F*cked...  

[lippydave]

The cheap end of the Westfield market is badly devaluing the quality end IMO.

I resent that - I'm sure my SDV would embarass a few home built modular kits in the "quality" stakes.  As would MCB's and many others SDV's I reckon.

I agree with your comments, and generally disagee with moving Westfield soley upmarket.

To my mind it's the kit build side of things that gives the whole Westfield genre more vibrancy and sparkle than Caterham.  

For me personally there's more pleasure to be derived from building something properly than paying over the odds for a bunch of disinterested fitters to throw together a bundle of overly-expensive proprietary components.      

In reality I understand the comments at the top tho' but I believe that anyone who's contemplating spending 30k on any  kind of inverted bathtub 7 is a wee bit deluded, and Colin Chapman espoused value for money as much as the values of light weight.....

Stuff that in yer "Caterham heritage" stylee pipe and smoke it....    

[nikpro]

The cheap end of the Westfield market is badly devaluing the quality end IMO.

I resent that - I'm sure my SDV would embarass a few home built modular kits in the "quality" stakes.  As would MCB's and many others SDV's I reckon.

The build quality of some of the SDV's is stunning and that isn't my arguement - Westfield should not offer it as an option because it lowers the 'Brand image'.

I would rather Westfield spent money on the development of their chassis than spend money on altering it to fit components that were never designed to go in there!

If they want to be taken as a serious sports car by people on the fringes of main stream motoring they need a product that is almost completely bespoke and move away from the 'you strip this old car, cut, weld, bend the bits and put them on this chassis with a new fibreglass tub' kit car mentality.

If you want to do the above there are still plenty other manufacturers who offer that at the same quality as a Westfield SDV - some are considerably better dynamically. (Sorry but it's true   )

[MCB]

The cheap end of the Westfield market is badly devaluing the quality end IMO.

I resent that - I'm sure my SDV would embarass a few home built modular kits in the "quality" stakes.  As would MCB's and many others SDV's I reckon.

The build quality of some of the SDV's is stunning and that isn't my arguement - Westfield should not offer it as an option because it lowers the 'Brand image'.

I would rather Westfield spent money on the development of their chassis than spend money on altering it to fit components that were never designed to go in there!

If they want to be taken as a serious sports car by people on the fringes of main stream motoring they need a product that is almost completely bespoke and move away from the 'you strip this old car, cut, weld, bend the bits and put them on this chassis with a new fibreglass tub' kit car mentality.

If you want to do the above there are still plenty other manufacturers who offer that at the same quality as a Westfield SDV - some are considerably better dynamically. (Sorry but it's true   )

lowers the 'Brand image'        

[scott beeland]

Nikpro....It beats me why you have ever owned a westfield...

Oh and my 2p's worth......there's a market out there for all the wetfield range (sdv/ modular/ factory build/ race car/ daft money top spec ...). Alienating the cheaper end of the market is NOT good business sense....And that's the beauty of what the Westfield product has always been about..... If you want to spend 8k on building a westfield; there's a quality kit out there to enable you to do it....If you want to spend 40k on building/ buying a westfield; there's a quality kit out there for you too.

In addition.....Just because you might be able to stretch to the "all new components" option that is available doesn't mean you are going to be able to build a better car....If you have the skills only to build a nail; then it'll be a 40k nail, the same as it would be an 8k nail. Similarly there are PLENTY of westfields (and other kits) out there that have some 20 yr old bits under the skin (cortina uprights/ escort axles/ x flows....) and are being driven/ displayed/ raced or enjoyed succesfully without dropping apart and shaming the "brand"