F1 Race

[Andy @ Cat]

Also if it's an offence to leave the circuit shouldn't the run off areas be closed and barriered. Otherwise the race organisers are aiding and abetting the drivers to commit an offence.

Interestingly that's a point raised by Trulli. He pointed out that if the corner had been walled or barriered Hamilton probably wouldn't have attempted the pass.

Or he would have held his line and let KR run in to him

[Guest]

It is the inconsistency bit that puzzles me.  At Spa there are a number of corners where there are large areas of tarmac off the actual circuit that cars were using from the first lap.  It is only at the end that they specifically penalise one car for doing this.

My second query is over what constitutes the circuit - the bit between the white lines or the bit between the barriers.  As above, it seems to me that all drivers were a bit confused about this (except perhaps Kimi when he stuffed it!)

[iiyama]

It shall be at the discretion o the stewards to decide, upon a report or a request by the race director, if a driver or drivers involved in an incident shall be penalised

Maybe Im not fully undserstanding this? The stewards act on a report or request of the race director?

The race director was questioned at the time to see if the rules had been obeyed and agreed that they had. SO why would he have requested that the stewards investigate the incident??

Maybe Ive got me blonde wig on! If so Ill get me coat!

As for Lauda, he was involved with Ferrari much more recently then Mclaren. Didnt he hold the position that Schumacher holds now?

[tabs23]

QUOTE

My second query is over what constitutes the circuit - the bit between the white lines or the bit between the barriers.  As above, it seems to me that all drivers were a bit confused about this (except perhaps Kimi when he stuffed it!)

There's no confusion - the white lines define the edge of the circuit, and if you put all 4 wheels over that line you are off the circuit. This applies from F1 down to club racing. Obviously, this happens from time to time when drivers make mistakes - it's when it's done consistently (usually to gain an advantage, for instance Paddock Hill Bend at Brands or either of the chicanes at Castle Combe) that drivers get penalised.

[peterg]

Appeal to proceed: McLaren: FIA told us we were 'okay'

By Jonathan Noble Tuesday, September 9th 2008, 159 GMT

McLaren have revealed that they were told twice by FIA race officials during the Belgian Grand Prix that Lewis Hamilton had given back the race lead to Kimi Raikkonen in an 'okay' manner.

With the team confirming on Tuesday that they were pressing ahead with their appeal against Hamilton's 25-second penalty for gaining an unfair advantage, McLaren's F1 CEO Martin Whitmarsh claims that the team enquired twice with Race Control whether or not their driver had acted in a legitimate manner.

Hamilton was given the penalty after cutting across the Bus Stop chicane while attempting to pass Kimi Raikkonen for the lead with three laps to go.

Whitmarsh said: "From the pit wall, we then asked Race Control to confirm that they were comfortable that Lewis had allowed Kimi to repass, and they confirmed twice that they believed that the position had been given back in a manner that was 'okay'.

"If Race Control had instead expressed any concern regarding Lewis's actions at that time, we would have instructed Lewis to allow Kimi to repass for a second time."

Hamilton has confirmed that he definitely backed off as he exited the chicane to allow Raikkonen to retake the lead, prior to choosing to make a move at La Source hairpin.

"In the closing stages of the race I was catching Kimi consistently, lap by lap, and with three laps remaining I got close enough to attempt to overtake him on the entry to the last chicane," he said.

"I managed to get slightly ahead of him in the braking area for the first apex of the chicane. He fought back approaching the second apex - but, in doing so, he left no room for me on the inside line. The only way for me to avoid a collision was therefore to cut inside the second apex.

"I came out of the second apex in front of Kimi and so I momentarily lifted-off on the straight, to ensure that Kimi got back in front. The team also came on the radio and instructed me to allow Kimi to repass, which I had already done. As a result, Kimi crossed the start/finish line ahead of me and 6.7 km/h quicker than me.

"After allowing Kimi to completely repass, I crossed from the left side of the track to the right side of the track, passing behind Kimi in the process. I then attacked Kimi on the inside of the first corner, and successfully outbraked him."

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

It shall be at the discretion o the stewards to decide, upon a report or a request by the race director, if a driver or drivers involved in an incident shall be penalised

ie Max's man asked to get Hamilton checked.

And we all know how much Max loves Ron Dennis      

[david.c]

Just hope the appeal is succesfull, as this has been the most inconsistent penalty I have seen dished out.

Can anyone (either side of the discussion) ever remember when a driver has been punished in this manner before?

Lewis was the best driver on the day and deserves his rightful victory

David

[Martin Keene]

4. They know the FIA have it in for them but are determined to beat the odds and stick two fingers up to the FIA and win anyway.

5. Kind of on the same lines as Matt's 4. What the hell else are a company like McLaren going to do? Apart from other F1 Teams, McLaren probably have 5-10 times the number of employees of any other motorsport team in the world. Yes they could move in to something like Sportcars full time, but the revenue from sponorship in that would not even begin to cover the overheads of McLaren.

So you think businessman Ron Dennis is fully aware of some form of deliberate bias against his team yet he continues to compete in the hope he'll beat the guys who make the rules just (or partly) to keep his current workforce in employment?

I'd love that to be true but lets face it, most businessmen at his level haven't got to where they are through being nice. I think the truth is he's either aware of some form of bias against his team and is happy to weather it because there is some benefit to be had, or he's confident there is no bias against his team.

What's his other option? Pay out a small fortune in making everyone redundant and closing a facility like the Technology centre.

Closing a company costs *big* money. And when the company is apparently stuck in the market it is in and unable to change, but is still making a profit, would you pay the bill to close it?

I wouldn't, and a very much doubt a businessman like Ron would either...

[neilb]

Just hope the appeal is succesfull, as this has been the most inconsistent penalty I have seen dished out.

Can anyone (either side of the discussion) ever remember when a driver has been punished in this manner before?

Lewis was the best driver on the day and deserves his rightful victory

David

Got to agree with this.  It the level of inconsistency that stinks to high heaven on this.  McLaren are given the Okay twice then get penalised yet in Valencia Massa is found guilt of an unsafe release with no real penalty.

Surely if the FIA are wanting to be seen as forwarding the safety of motorsport then something that endangers people in the pits and marshals ie passing under waved yellow flags by Kimi, must be penalised fully and not brushed under the carpet or even investigated.        

[neilb]

Nearly 25k people signed the petition so far

[Buzz Billsberry]

As neilb says and others have said its the ‘inconsistency’ of the decisions. What they should have is a team of official stewards who travel with the F1 circus and have actually raced, know how F1 lives and breaths and know the rule book inside out. This would negate a lot of the issues raised. Ok its not the perfect solution but its got to be far superior to the so called 'officials' that  are bean counters, shop owners or what ever they do/come from in their normal walk of life. We need motorsport professionals. We need to get away from this ‘inconsistency’ its killing the sport sorry business. I know some of you people will come back with ‘its the FIA mafia in charge’ but at least it will be consistent bias to Ferrari or Mclaren or what ever team is battling out for the world championship. Even if the driver who breaks the rules fails to finish or crashes out the punishment must still apply even if its carried over to the next race

I know it’s not the perfect solution and you can blame the FIA for favoritism, me personally I don't think its as bad as the press make it out to be. We all know the press loves nothing better than throwing fuel on the debate and fanning the flames, but F1 is getting drawn in and are taking their eye of the ball and the ball is ‘consistency’

Buzz

[LordB]

Who are these stewards? and more to the poiint WHERE DO THEY LIVE

[david.c]

Who are these stewards? and more to the poiint WHERE DO THEY LIVE

Leave them alone.................one of them is a good friend of mine...........and I am looking forward to trying out his new swimming when I next pop round        

David

OK I'm fibbing    

[MK11]

Leave them alone.................one of them is a good friend of mine...........and I am looking forward to trying out his new swimming when I next pop round        

Don't you mean F430!!

[pistonbroke]

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