F1 Race

[Richgm]

6. Someone wants to keep Hamilton from winning the championship

[Pembroke Pat]

like uncle Max?

[FW500]

4. They know the FIA have it in for them but are determined to beat the odds and stick two fingers up to the FIA and win anyway.

5. Kind of on the same lines as Matt's 4. What the hell else are a company like McLaren going to do? Apart from other F1 Teams, McLaren probably have 5-10 times the number of employees of any other motorsport team in the world. Yes they could move in to something like Sportcars full time, but the revenue from sponorship in that would not even begin to cover the overheads of McLaren.

So you think businessman Ron Dennis is fully aware of some form of deliberate bias against his team yet he continues to compete in the hope he'll beat the guys who make the rules just (or partly) to keep his current workforce in employment?

I'd love that to be true but lets face it, most businessmen at his level haven't got to where they are through being nice. I think the truth is he's either aware of some form of bias against his team and is happy to weather it because there is some benefit to be had, or he's confident there is no bias against his team.

[Blatman]

From what I can see the two facts included within the statement are accurate. Lewis did leave the racetrack and he did gain an advantage. The fact he would later let Kimi regain the lead briefly is a separate fact altogether and is a fact that the stewards are not obliged to consider.

Er, so did Kimi, at Pouhon. If you watch, both Kimi and Hamilton left the track at Pouhon. Hamilton did hid best to regain the track as quickly as possible, Kimi kept his foot in, went the longer, higher speed route *off the circuit, against the rules* and made up ground.

4. They know the FIA have it in for them but are determined to beat the odds and stick two fingers up to the FIA and win anyway.

Actually, I think Ron is doing what us Brits do best. Rising above adversity when the odds seem stacked against us. It's a quality that is missing far too much in the current world of instant gratification, handed on a plate to whoever asks for it. More power to him I say. And *when* he wins, it'll be so much the sweeter because he will have his dignity and the knowledge that he didn't stoop to their levels.

Cue the Ferrari fans to say "What about the nicked plans"? What about them? McLaren has had the car rigorously scrutinised to ensure that it contains no Ferrari technology on it, nor in any of the design elements. Seems to have done McLaren a favour 'cos the Fezza is obviously crap in the wet.

I'll also say what about Renault? Guilty of the same crime as McLaren, but over a 4 year period IIRC, but got away really lightly by comparison. And it's not like just about every other team isn't doing it as well. Whatever else you may think, McLaren have received some pretty shoddy treatment from what is supposed to be a sporting body. Sporting my A***...

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

Sporting my A***...

If you go around sporting your A*** as others sport a bushy moustache you'll catch a nasty cold my lad!

[iiyama]

Going off topic slightly here but further to Blatters comment above; Even if McLaren are guilty of the spying that they are accused of, (and I have to concede they are because of the outcome of the hearing), am I the only one that cant believe that information was travelling in one direction? ie Ferrari>McLaren?? surely it was being reciprocated? Guess that wasnt an issue for the FIA though eh?

Also when a Ferrari man comes out and says this:- http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43875 you gotta start wondering whats going on.......

[Carl]

QUOTE

Whatever else you may think, McLaren have received some pretty shoddy treatment from what is supposed to be a sporting body.

It doesn appear that McLaren have had some bad decisions. However they have also been pretty slack in building relationships with the governing body of the sport.

[Matt182trophy]

The planet F1 article considers why Kimi and Nico weren't similarly punished. Clearly the stewards will concentrate on any incidents that affect the World Championship, however, beyond this neither driver finished within the points so what on earth would be gained from handing them a 25 second penalty?

But surely you could then argue that Kimi Raikonnen crashed out and therefore this 'unfair advantage' that Hamilton apparently got when forced off at a corner should have no bearing on the result because Raikonnen didn't finish as a result of something not related to this event at all.

[Matt Seabrook]

It's nice to hear the bull s***e cut through by someone that has first hand a genuine knowledge of F1.

[tex]

just to add some fuel to the debate

what *they* say in the red car

[Matt Seabrook]

Sorry I have to log in to the site and I cant be arsed to.

[MK11]

Even if McLaren are guilty of the spying that they are accused of, (and I have to concede they are because of the outcome of the hearing)

Have you taken the time to read the 180 or so pages of transcripts from the 2 hearings?  I have and they make for very interesting reading.  

Ron was doing everything but begging the FIA to come to the factory during the 2007 season whilst the whole spying saga was going on to inspect the place top to bottom for Ferrari technical data or systems.  They refused his offer but rather chose to wait until just pre the 2008 season before passing the Mclaren as fit.  Why, what would have been available in 2008 that wouldn't have been available in 2007?  It takes time to develop new parts, so parts or at the very least plans would have been available for inspection, but no, for some reason the FIA give McLaren 6 months to worry (or cover up any wrong doing).  Only one scenario makes much sense to me, you make up your own mind.

Yes, there is no denying that some within the factory had technical information, but look at who and ask yourself what good it would have done them.  (Then look at the actions of Ron when he was told by one of these people that they had such information.  IIRC it was Ron blowing the whistle that triggered the second hearing.)  What benefit could the team have gained that was worth $100m compared to say another team that had the entire senior technical staff privvy to such information for several years  (Oh yes and spot the common denominator for a bonus point!).

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

But surely you could then argue that Kimi Raikonnen crashed out and therefore this 'unfair advantage' that Hamilton apparently got when forced off at a corner should have no bearing on the result because Raikonnen didn't finish as a result of something not related to this event at all.

But by the good offices of the 'butterfly effect', Kimi wouldn't have been where he was, when he was, and 'possibly' would not have spun out and crashed had the sequence of events earlier been slightly different. Or even if he had spun, he might not have hit the wall. It's all down to tiny changes in a complex system amplifying themselves along the road to the ultimate result. Purely a Devil's advocate view, naturally.

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

There was talk a couple of years ago about the manufacturers going their own way and creating a "new" F1, without the FIA involved. Also probably no big payments to Bernie.

Starting to sound like a really good plan

[FW500]

Also when a Ferrari man comes out and says this:- http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43875 you gotta start wondering whats going on.......

Ferrari man? Lauda is about as much as a Ferrari man as I am a McLaren man. Lauda drove for McLaren just as much as he did for Ferrari - in fact moreso because he had a falling out with them in his last season and left early. There's no love lost between Lauda and Ferrari.