V8GPC Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Hi ALL, I'm the proud owner of a nice new 08 shinny Westfield SEight - with a "rebuilt" engine. (3.5L - Holley Carb) The builder had gone and got his girlfriend pregnant, and had to sell the car to buy a pram. Anyway - the car has only 100 miles on the clock - and a very noisy V8 with low oil pressure - although the engine looks very clean from the outside. I had the oil pump off, and found that the relief valve was stuck half open half closed... I found that a new piston, and also an old piston was getting jammed. I replaced the pump, etc... and now have oil pressure - but only when cold. (about 4.5bar - drops to less than 1 bar) As the engine warms up - the oil pressure dropped, and the top end became suprisingly noisey. Inspection of the rockers and shafts suggested that these hadn't been replaced at all - as they were very carbon'd and brown - even the shafts. So replaced them, and tried the engine again. (plenty of oil getting to them) Same as before - low pressure when warm - but now without the noise at the top end. Now - you can just hear noise from the bottom end - in the sump area - so possible bearing issues!!! A slight oil leak from the gearbox drain hole (not gear oil suggests that the bottom end has not been rebuilt. The heads look new - even got the white letters on the valve springs... ANYWAY - I know that i need to rebuild or replace this engine - so the question i want to ask is? What do i need to remove to get the engine out of the car (other than the obvious bits) The isn't much clearance at the front of the engine when removing. Therefore to move the engine forward enough to get the clutch clear of the bell housing (LT77) Is there enough clearance to get the engine out with the timing cover still attached - if i remove the P6 water pump? or do i need to remove the timing cover also. What other things do i need to know? The car drives and runs nice - if it weren't for the oil pressure, and at least I know everything fits - inc water hoses etc... Hope you can help . Thanks Gary Quote
stu999 Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Welcome Must be one heck of a pram! Are you worrying about oil pressure at idle when hot, or when revving? The average V8 (with a few miles on board) has next to nothing at idle when hot. However, from what you have found so far, (and the fact that you sound like you want to get it spot on), it might be a good idea to pull the motor out. As for actually getting the motors in/out - pass. I'm sure someone will be along shortly though... Quote
Buzz Billsberry Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Gary it will come out with out the taking the front cover off. you have to split the box and get the engine as far down the shaft as poss you'll need to get the G box jacked as far as it will go( U'll also need to get 1 of the manifolds off &oil rad as well as the oil rad plate that the rad sits on along with alternator) Try and set the engine hoist slings so the are towards the from so when you get the engine off the gbox it will come out at an angle then just crank the handle on the engine hoist. From your description the engine sound pretty tired it would be worth giving it a full re build. These engines need quantity rather than pressure when it comes to oil and @ 1 bar when hot is not good and there’s only one thing that will happen and I know its happened to me ok mines a new engine but cold it ticks over at 3bar and drops to 2 at when its hot then 3.8 0ver 2350 rpm If your gonna go for a new engine go for a 4.6 which is cross bolted and a much stronger engine, mpg isn't much different but its much more tunable mpg on mine which is a TVR based 4.6 Efi 30 mpgtouring and about 12 on full hammer a mixture of both 20 Drop me a pm with your mobi and I'll give you a bell Buzz Quote
adamnreeves Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Engine will go in and out without taking too much off. Jack car up like this: offer engine like this: From my build diary here Quote
V8GPC Posted September 3, 2008 Author Posted September 3, 2008 Thanks Guys, i've thought long and hard about the oil pressure - There was a fault with the pump that is sorted now - at idle hot is drops below 1bar - but does pick up when rev'd to 2300rpm - but only to about 2bar... i'd i worry that the damage has already been done!!! for piece of mind i'd like to rebuild There isn't an oil cooler - is this an issue? where is the best place to fit one - and would you just run pipes from the remote filter and have it in series? I'll probably leave the gearbox in situ, as there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with it - although i've not had much change to put any miles on the car. being able to get it out with the timing cover off etc.. makes it easyer and cleaner when I come to put it back... At the moment i'll probably keep the 3.5L and the carb as it is - when its rebuilt - so I can have some fun with the car... and think about what upgrades to do (4.6L probably) as an engine project later on. I'll let you know how i get on... with the car PS - i'm new to the westfield cars, upgrading from Land Rovers (V8's of-course) off roading!!!... My mate has a Ultima Can-am, i'd i've kinda caught the kit car bug from him - but his car is a bit too powerfull for me... 600+ brake at the wheels - and supercharged see www.v8yes.co.uk for his build diary But that thing costs him a fortune... and you can have as more fun is a westfield!!! Quote
adamnreeves Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Some may debate that the oil cooler is not much use, especially as it is behind the rad but one thing it does do is increase the oil capacity but remember that an increase of fluid capacity means reduced temperature under the same operating conditions. I produced a diagram for the oil cooler here: Oil cooler is attached at the front of the chassis above the steering rack. Quote
Blatman Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Engine will go in and out without taking too much off. Jack car up like this: offer engine like this: From my build diary here Don't do it like that... jack the back of the car up. The engine won't have to come out and go in at such a crazy angle then... Quote
highwayman Posted September 3, 2008 Posted September 3, 2008 Gary, Give me a nod I can pop over one evening and run you through the procedure as I've done it twice unfortunately and or if available assist when you do it as I'm not a million miles away. have you got an engine crane? if not can loan you mine I took just the engine out and back in without removing the gearbox so its doable. Dave Quote
adamnreeves Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 Engine will go in and out without taking too much off. Jack car up like this: offer engine like this: From my build diary here Don't do it like that... jack the back of the car up. The engine won't have to come out and go in at such a crazy angle then... That's how the V8 boys do it. the length of the engine with transmission means you need the ground clearance under the front to get it in. Quote
studbuckle Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 Everything so far has been sound advice but i'll just add that even following a full rebuild my 3.5 has never seen more than 0.5 bar at hot idle and I know when the oil level is getting low due the efficiency of the self draining system **sump gasket** because the valve on number 2 starts to get noisy. Quote
Darren B Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 According to the literature I have read, once the engine is warm normal idle is 1-1.5 bar, but at 2000 rpm it should be close to 2 bar. That is for a standard engine 3.5/3.9 litres. Quote
V8GPC Posted September 4, 2008 Author Posted September 4, 2008 Lucky - i have a pit (fills up with water - but still useful), so if i remove it with the gearbox in - i'll have plenty of ground clearance. Dave Thanks for the offer of the engine crane - but i have a beam with a lifing eye built into the garage - and a block and tackle - so shouldn't be too tricky. Your welcome to come up and give a hand etc... but i'm up in worlsey - and dudley isn't just round the corner!!! i'll have a go myself, and let you know if I get stuck. Quote
Buzz Billsberry Posted September 4, 2008 Posted September 4, 2008 highwayman · Posted on Sep. 03 2008,22:58 Gary, Give me a nod I can pop over one evening and run you through the procedure as I've done it twice unfortunately and or if available assist when you do it as I'm not a million miles away. have you got an engine crane? if not can loan you mine I took just the engine out and back in without removing the gearbox so its doable. Dave Top man Dave always easier with two Gary do have a look on Adams site its an excellent source site, your fortunate there's a few good V8 specialists in the club such as Barry Ashcroft & Graham Smith. and of coarse there's the SEiGHT Forum I don't know who you've been using for bits? I use Ray/Shaun/Rob @ V8 Developments a top bunch of guys that will always send you down the right path V8 Developments Good luck hope you get sorted Buzz Quote
highwayman Posted September 6, 2008 Posted September 6, 2008 Sorry,thought you were in Wordsley not Worlsey Dave Quote
simonbesant Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 it only takes a couple of hours to get the engine out (remove water pump and crank pulley) on mine there are a couple of bell housing bolts that are a bit long and i have to pull the engine forwards as i undo them the last bit. I have a almost new crank that is out of a 3.9 you can have it if you can arrange collection i am near amersham in bucks Quote
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