WARNING REGARDING HIDDEN SPEED CAMERA VANS

[MK11]

To counter the abundance of brainwashed "speed kills" people on here all of a sudden!!!

As the person who first started the argument please let me state that I am in no way suckered in by the "speed kills" rubbish touted by the media.  I am firmly of the opinion that inappropriate speed kills, now that may be well in excess of 100mph or well under 30mph depending on circumstances.   My point was that the speed limit as enforced by the BIB is a law set by the Highways Authority and breaking the law should entail punishment.  I happen not to agree with a lot of the speed limits in force but that does not give me the right to ignore them with inpugnity, in the same way that a chav who doesn't see why he shouldn't drive whilst p****d, uninsured and untaxed has no right to ignore those laws.

We would be more productive challenging the people setting the speed limits than challenging the people whose duty it is to uphold those laws, people who in a lot of cases do not agree with those limits either.

[neilb]

To counter the abundance of brainwashed "speed kills" people on here all of a sudden!!!

As the person who first started the argument please let me state that I am in no way suckered in by the "speed kills" rubbish touted by the media.  I am firmly of the opinion that inappropriate speed kills, now that may be well in excess of 100mph or well under 30mph depending on circumstances.   My point was that the speed limit as enforced by the BIB is a law set by the Highways Authority and breaking the law should entail punishment.  I happen not to agree with a lot of the speed limits in force but that does not give me the right to ignore them with inpugnity, in the same way that a chav who doesn't see why he shouldn't drive whilst p****d, uninsured and untaxed has no right to ignore those laws.

We would be more productive challenging the people setting the speed limits than challenging the people whose duty it is to uphold those laws, people who in a lot of cases do not agree with those limits either.

My point is that these covert cameras are in no way enforcing the law but simply monitoring how many people are breaking the law then trying to prosecute them at a later date.

It's akin to the police watching a thief trying to break into a house taking his details then leaving them to continue safe in the knowledge that if they had give false details the fixed penalty notice would never come through his letter box, the reason that the police wear a uniform is so that they can be recognised and deter would be wrong doers.

[Muttleys V8]

The police are subject to the same laws we all are.

         

Do you really think this    

Might be worth you reading this then   CLICKY

Agree when they sit at 70mph in the 1st lane of a motorway.

What about when they are doing 90mph, no lights and sirens!

Look at Traffic Cops on TV, some of them are not wearing seat belts!

[lukeyboy]

The police are subject to the same laws we all are.

         

Do you really think this    

Might be worth you reading this then   CLICKY

Agree when they sit at 70mph in the 1st lane of a motorway.

What about when they are doing 90mph, no lights and sirens!

Look at Traffic Cops on TV, some of them are not wearing seat belts!

..............and operating hand held radios whilst carrying out high speed pursuits  

but I'm sure they have special skills to do this  

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

To counter the abundance of brainwashed "speed kills" people on here all of a sudden!!!

Can't see what the problem is with speed personally - in the right circumstances  

http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/motoring/story/0,,1610054,00.html

& work can be a pleasure sometimes because the laws of our nanny state do not apply to my day job thank goodness                  

Should have put the car sideways, like you noramlly do Windy, that would have been interesting for him

[stu999]

The police are subject to the same laws we all are. They cannot put false plates on their vehicles.

I would be inclined to agree with MGF255. They dont necessarily need to be false - merely *all* registered to that vehicle.

Whilst I do not know for sure if they do get fitted or not, the Mrs works at a local car dealership, where a number of 'plain clothes' police cars get serviced - they often turn up with a couple of sets of number plates in the boot

[dombanks]

totally running the risk of getting shouted at but isnt it fair to say ...

if you dont want to to run the risk of getting points/losing licence dont speed? we know the limit, and we know the consiquesnces of breaking it. We also know the police are using underhanded tactics to catch us in some cases.

[Asterix]

Obviously I'm down with the kids (u get me?), so I'm not old enough to listen to radio 4, but as I was searching the light program for the latest Dire Straits or Rolling Stones or whatever yoof of today is listening to now, I happened to overhear the Today programme (weekdays 6 - 9am) newsreader (Charlotte Green) state that 1 in 3 drivers per year are now subject to either a speeding fine or parking ticket. Luckily I switched over to my 8 track cassette quickly enough to play the hip beats of James Last and his orchestra, turned it up, wound down the window and thereby restored my street cred.

[pistonbroke]

Its got to the stage now where the whole speed camera thing has lost all its credability.

No one in there right mind can seriously think these cash convertors are used purely for the safety of the british public.

How does any camera, including covert speed camera stop the toe rag driver who doesnt give a s**t about road safety from driving like a lunatic ?

Most people just shrug there shoulders and cough up when caught , maybe drive like a boy scout for a day or two then go back to there old everyday driving habit

As for those on here who say they have never driven over  the speed limit . I would say you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

   

[MK11]

How does any camera, including covert speed camera stop the toe rag driver who doesnt give a s**t about road safety from driving like a lunatic ?

Most people just shrug there shoulders and cough up when caught , maybe drive like a boy scout for a day or two then go back to there old everyday driving habit

In the same vein how does doing away with the camera and employing more traffic officers help(which I assume what you are inferring).  How many times on the TV have seen the chav drive off after being stopped and then get stopped again 5 minutes later?

There is no way to force everyone to follow the law, all you can do is persuade the majority to do so.  There will always be the minority who will treat the law with distain and in these cases the courts should use the full powers given to them and send the barstewards down, crush their cars and fine them to the breadline.

As for your second point are you saying that the fine isn't sufficient to prevent reoffending, if so what do you suggest, bigger fines/imprisonment or just relaxing all the limits so less people will be caught? (but then won't that mean less chance for the idiot scumbag to be dealt with?).

All I have heard so far is moaning that there are too many cameras fining too many people, but hey hold on each one of these people was breaking the law, the law may be stupid but it is the LAW.  I may believe that the law saying I can't machine gun chavs in the shopping centre is stupid but I would and should still be prosecuted for ignoring it.  

If you want drive faster on a road than the limit allows try to get the limit changed, don't ignore it and moan that you were fined.

[neilb]

How does any camera, including covert speed camera stop the toe rag driver who doesnt give a s**t about road safety from driving like a lunatic ?

Most people just shrug there shoulders and cough up when caught , maybe drive like a boy scout for a day or two then go back to there old everyday driving habit

In the same vein how does doing away with the camera and employing more traffic officers help(which I assume what you are inferring).  How many times on the TV have seen the chav drive off after being stopped and then get stopped again 5 minutes later?

There is no way to force everyone to follow the law, all you can do is persuade the majority to do so.  There will always be the minority who will treat the law with distain and in these cases the courts should use the full powers given to them and send the barstewards down, crush their cars and fine them to the breadline.

As for your second point are you saying that the fine isn't sufficient to prevent reoffending, if so what do you suggest, bigger fines/imprisonment or just relaxing all the limits so less people will be caught? (but then won't that mean less chance for the idiot scumbag to be dealt with?).

All I have heard so far is moaning that there are too many cameras fining too many people, but hey hold on each one of these people was breaking the law, the law may be stupid but it is the LAW.  I may believe that the law saying I can't machine gun chavs in the shopping centre is stupid but I would and should still be prosecuted for ignoring it.  

If you want drive faster on a road than the limit allows try to get the limit changed, don't ignore it and moan that you were fined.

Maybe you should secretly take pictures of the chavs in the shopping centre and then find out where they live and machine gun them in their home a few days later    

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

Maybe you should secretly take pictures of the chavs in the shopping centre and then find out where they live and machine gun them in their home a few days later    

Best idea I have heard on this thread particularly when you see the way the courts continually let them away with an apparent slap on the wrist, whilst they really go to town on the normally law abiding person, who has inadvertantly strayed over the nominal limit.

Let's not forget the reason the 70MPH speed limit was bought in originally. It was during the 70's fuel crisis and to save fuel. It had NOTHING to do with saving lives.

[Blatman]

The police are subject to the same laws we all are. They cannot put false plates on their vehicles.

I would be inclined to agree with MGF255. They dont necessarily need to be false - merely *all* registered to that vehicle.

Whilst I do not know for sure if they do get fitted or not, the Mrs works at a local car dealership, where a number of 'plain clothes' police cars get serviced - they often turn up with a couple of sets of number plates in the boot

So if it is legal to have more than one vehicle with the same index number, maybe I should apply for the same dispensation for all my vehicles. Should save some dosh at road fund licence time

[steve_m]

Maybe you should secretly take pictures of the chavs in the shopping centre and then find out where they live and machine gun them in their home a few days later    

Best idea I have heard on this thread particularly when you see the way the courts continually let them away with an apparent slap on the wrist, whilst they really go to town on the normally law abiding person, who has inadvertantly strayed over the nominal limit.

Let's not forget the reason the 70MPH speed limit was bought in originally. It was during the 70's fuel crisis and to save fuel. It had NOTHING to do with saving lives.

Another aspect to it is that the police are not a cheap service to run, we pay a lot for their services, but the courts force them to jump through hoops to prove these scroats are juilty then let them out again . . . so the plod have to go through the same process all over again    

I know a few police officers who say they know who most of the main criminals are in their area, they could stop 80% of the crime in a couple of days by picking up those they know about . . . but they can't keep them locked up.

[Norman Verona]

I'll say it again, Police are subject to the same laws that everyone else is. If they break the law (and get caught) they will be in court. What happens then will be the same process that will occur for you and me.

In my experience magistrates are not exactly friendly towards the police. They treat them on the basis they should know better.

And whilst I'm repeating myself (me!) the problem is not the enforcement but the limits set by local authorities.

The 70mph limit was imposed in the 60's when a group of people were testing an AC Cobra on the M1 at over 150 mph. The police set up a road block to stop them (they were not prosecuted as there was no evidence of dangerous driving). Questions were asked in the house and the result was a top limit of 70 mph. I think the minister at the time was Babera Castle.

As for enforcing speed limits think of the alternative. Not enforcing them would have many drivers driving at speeds that would be wholly unappropriate and many innocent peoples lives would be put in danger.

The Govt. have found that the cheapest way to enforce speed limits is with camaras.

The increase and acceptance (by Govt.) of using cameras came about when Blair announced a crackdown on street crime (mainly mobile phone thefts) Problem was he jumped the gun because the phone providers weren't ready to dissable stolen phones. Result was that Chief Constables were "requested" to increase bobbies on the beat at the expense of traffic police on the roads. The justifaction was that cameras could do the job.

The downside of relying on cameras and having far less cars out is that undue care and dangerous driving go unchecked.

At the time traffic police were diverted to pounding the beat, (many resigned) South Yorkshire Police sometimes only had 2 cars on the road. With the M1 and the A1M to look after it's lucky they didn't have major incidents on both roads at the same time as they would not have been able to deal with it.

Right, I'm off to watch the snooker. Thanks for your time.