white van man Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Ok these fuel lines are really bugging me now. I dont know what to run them in. I have C***ed up (dont ask!!) the westfild ones so now i need to run in some other lines. Alot of people suggest the B&Q copperpipe. Has anyone had problems with this and the SVA man? if it has been questioned how have you proved its adequate? I would really like to get this sorted in the next few days so i can run the lines in at the weekend so then hopefully i can spend chrimbo fitting the engine and starting the wiring!! Thanks again for all your help A very stressed Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I would have thought you'd have some trouble getting a strong enough seal unless you buy yourself a tool to put nice swage on the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VX2L16V Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I used it, no probs so far... braized plumbers olives on the end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedricTheBrave Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 same ere no probs with SVA and soldered olives on the end to stop the joints sliding off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new bear Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 i used the westfield ones after talking to the sva man he said as long as they dont move its ok but no soldered joins as the fuel will leak out so its a fail if you use solder hope this helps braized is the way to go and clip every 250mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedricTheBrave Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 soldering olives on the end of the pipe to prevent the rubber from sliding off is more than adequate. You don't need to braze them on its just not necessary. But its up to you at the end of the day. Alot of people have used flexible pipe through out and found it a lot easier to route and clip up etc. you will have fewer joints which are always the weekest point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamnreeves Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Ok these fuel lines are really bugging me now. I dont know what to run them in. I have C***ed up (dont ask!!) the westfild ones so now i need to run in some other lines. Alot of people suggest the B&Q copperpipe. Has anyone had problems with this and the SVA man? if it has been questioned how have you proved its adequate? I would really like to get this sorted in the next few days so i can run the lines in at the weekend so then hopefully i can spend chrimbo fitting the engine and starting the wiring!! Thanks again for all your help A very stressed Alex I am assuming you are running injection because you say fuel lines rather than fuel line. If you are running injection you cannot just use any old copper pipe you have to have something installed that can proven to take the pressure. Your lines have to have the necessary marks on them, I even ensured my marks were not hidden by the floor! Your lines will need swags in them otherwise the ends will blow off. I wouldn't get to hung up over it, you do not have to do before the engine do you, well not unless you are going through the tunnel I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white van man Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 Thanks everyone, My current plan is to buy 2 more westy ones for the vent and return and run them under the car as per the instructions but splash out and buy a braided one to run down the tunnel for the high pressure feed. i want to do it all in braided really but cant justify the money at the moment. Thanks for the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff oakley Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 I have had two cars pass SVA using copper no problem. The burst pressure on copper pipe is huge. You can use the olive method or you could use a compression fitting and adapter to go from either the 8 or 10mm you use straight to an aeroquip type fitting. The Westfield ones are so easy to kink it is a waste of money IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott beeland Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 a) I even ensured my marks were not hidden by the floor! b) I wouldn't get to hung up over it, a) Would we expect anything less from you Mr Reeves? B)....No? Really?....Are you sure you wouldn't?? Sorry mate........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamnreeves Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 The burst pressure on copper pipe is huge. whats the tested and quality assured burst pressure then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedricTheBrave Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 BS EN 1057 X Y or Z between 75 and 105 bar depending on the variant for 8mm ie EN 1057 Y annealed 8mm copper 105 bar = just over 1500 psi sufficient for our humble requirements Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff oakley Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 The burst pressure on copper pipe is huge. whats the tested and quality assured burst pressure then? Well that all depends, the main issue with any copper pipe is the method of fixings rather than the actual pipe. IIRC a solder joint is the weakest particularly at temperature where if the solder starts to overheat then it will fail. Compression joints correctly fitted will still function upto 7 bar. Again if IIRC correctly copper pipe has a burst pressure way over 10 bar. Now on the SVA, unless it has changed again, the only pipe you have to prove is sutible for fuel is the rubber hose, which must be approved for high pressure fuel systems. I had to provide a spec sheet for the Goodridge hose i used as the stainless braiding conceals all markings. As most fuel injection systems operate at 3-5 bars max you are well inside any limitation of copper as the weak link is the joint. Indeed if you look at a jenvey fuel rail there is a small o ring into which the alloy pipe is push fit, the rail is bolted at each end and that is all no clips. It is up to each individual really what they use but I have built two myself, have fitted the same pipe on two or three others, which have all passed no problems. I always choose the safest and easiest route and I would take copper over rubber any day and certainly over steel which will weaken with the inevitable corrosion that sets in under the coating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff oakley Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 BS EN 1057 X Y or Z between 75 and 105 bar depending on the variant for 8mm ie EN 1057 Y annealed 8mm copper 105 bar = just over 1500 psi sufficient for our humble requirements I typed my reply when you were obvoiusly doing yours, thanks for the technical bit. I just looked on another site and they have a .8 wall od with a burst pressure of 4000 psi. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 I noticed the SVA guy being particularly interested in my rubber pipe markings. I've now replaced with braided.... but only because it looks pretty and i'm fast becoming a tart. I had no problems at all with the westy ones, i bought a mini handheld pipe bender and it worked a treat, i got some very tight bends with no kinking or flattening. I recommend it, didn't cost much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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