Taking the Plunge - BEC - What to look for..?

[Jumpy07]

I have been lurking for a while.. reading what I can.. but here goes..

I am seriously contemplating buying a Megablade Wide Body.. (Wide required for my bulk)..... I have owned various stripped down cars over the years including a  few Elises.. however having to drive as part of my job forced me to buy practical quick and therefore expensive cars......but probably not by Westy standards...     ok will stop droaning on...

I have reached a certain time in life when a man wants a plaything.. (car that is)..wont mention my age either..

I am going to look at a Megablade this weekend, is there anything I should specfically look out for....  ?... I know the gearboxes can be tempermental.. and have read that the Westy reverse gearbox isnt the strongest... but other than that and checking the car hasnt been wrapped round a lamppost is there anything else to watch out for.. ?

The car will just be a weekend toy, may take it to the track once a year.. and also may use it for the odd weekend away with the Mrs etc.. thats is she will get in in... if not its her loss.. she can play with her new kitchen.. ( thats what it cost me to get a Westy).

Still not sure the BEC is the way top go, however being different appeals.. would welcome your thoughts on BEC's..

Have priced the insurance at £240 from Mr Flux ( I had a toral loss earlier this year when someone killed my Boxster S).

Also if anyone know of any other BEC's for sale let me know.. but must have full screen and full weather gear and be a wide body, (Wife wont budge on this).

Many Thanks in Advance

Craig

[wildwesty]

From what you have said about your wants and what you are going to use the car for i would wonder if you should look at CEC as well.

They are all different and as you will have read, there are pros & cons to each.

My advice would be to set your budget (assuming 8-10k) and look at both a bird & a blade if you sure you want BEC but also drive a zetec/ VX before you make any comitments.

good luck, let us know what your looking at and we can fill you in.

welcome

[Jumpy07]

Thanks for the feedback....  

I have never driven a Westy before although I have driven other cars such as 7's etc.. so I am under no illusion as to what they are like.. there are certainly more CEC's about and it would be a cheaper option..

My budget is up to £10k for a minted car.. however I dont mind saving a few bucks with something that needs a few things doing.. but I am not looking for a full build....

I am in Scotland and dont really have the time to wander round the country looking at cars.... so anything localish would be of interest..

Now would seam to be a good time to buy, watching ebay there are lots of Westies and similar cars that are not selling.. buyers market as we get into the winter I guess.

Best Regards

Craig

[wildwesty]

biggest problem is finding the right car, and maybe more-so for you up in scotland, you have to travel the length of the country several times before the right one comes up.

Keep us posted, and keep an eye out on here or post for scotish members as im sure someone lives close enough to give you a ride in a BEC and  CEC

[Cuprarstar]

Hi Craig,

 I was in a similar position to you earlier this year.  From my experience of BEC's I would say take your time to find the right one and have a Westfield specialist (or at least someone who knows the BEC's well) look over the car for you before you buy.  I have to agree with Wildwesty I think you would do well to have a look at a CEC before you decide.

I found a mint MegaBird with all the right spec, everything looked fine, got a Honda bike fanatic to check over the engine, electrics etc less than 300 miles on the clock, all the reciepts (an amazing £23k's worth!) from Westfield/Honda etc.  But within 100 miles disaster struck - there was a very slight vibration just before the propshaft detached itself, smashing the waterpump...about £500 worth of damage and a few hours work to repair.  Unfortunately, a couple of weeks later we found out it had done a lot more damage to the engine, which eventually gave up completely (conrod on piston 3 - a common fault on wet sumped 'Birds, apparently).  Anyway enough of my doom and gloom story, many others have had much more positive experiences.

This is just my opinion but I say avoid the MegaBird:

- You need a drysump kit - and no an accusump will not prevent the oil starvation problems if you intend to use the car on track.  This is not a problem on the 'Blade.

- Westfield no longer make many of the bespoke parts (eg the manifold/exhaust) yes the pattern is still available but the cost of a one off system could be silly.  Admittedly you don't intend to bend the car but things happen.

- The clutch is, to put it mildly, tricky to use in traffic - you need a lot of practice, yes you do get used to it but I can honestly say I was never 100% comfortable (again less of an issue for a track biased machine), the sequential gearbox also takes some getting used to unless you are used to counting your gears on a bike.

- The reverse gearboxes leak (it's one of those 'they all do that sir' answerswhen you ask anyone who knows) and require maintenance.

- The whole car requires a fair amount of TLC due to the vibration, check this, tighten that so it depends how dirty you want to get your hands and how often.

- Make sure the car has been built properly (oil lines in the right places, tidy/working electrics/suspension set up well etc, only a Westy expert/long termer can really tell you this)

On the upside they sound awesome - although you will deafen (and gas, with exhaust fumes) your passenger, the Mrs might not be too happy with that... She might also object to the back breaking driveline shunt each time you change gear!  Because there is more noise and vibration they pound your senses harder, and feel faster, in reality I'm not so sure.

The MegaBlade has a much better reputation, my knowledge is 3rd hand though so I can't say much more than that. They don't suffer the oil starvation problems or need a drysump kit which helps keep costs down.

I see you are based in Scotland but a chat with Mike Ellis at Autopro Motorsport in Buckley, North Wales would be worthwhile, he builds, races and knows these cars inside out (also does a lot of repair work for the factory so can tell you more about repair/maintenance costs etc).  He has a MegaBlade nearing completion at the moment and you would know you were getting a very well sorted car, you could probably amend the spec as you wanted it too - something that's more difficult with used private buys.  I know I wish I had met him before I made a fairly expensive mistake.

So as you can tell I am biased towards the CEC, I bought a Duratec to replace the Bird in the end and use it pretty much as you describe you will use yours.  My Mrs is happy to be a passenger (even drive it very occasionally) in it on a day out and its comfortable even on longer journeys - 300 miles in a day was they longest so far and it was a great blast.  The exhaust note is comfortable around town and at medium revs but you still get the same roar on full throttle and over 5K revs (revving past 10K is of course a great novelty in a BEC).  Even with a race clutch, flywheel and quickshift its as easy to drive in traffic as a Duratec engined Fiesta, and remains as much of a challenge to drive quickly as any other Westy.  Apart from the usual car maintenance checks, fluids, tyre pressures etc you can get on and enjoy the drive without having to worry about - what was that noise/vibration etc etc.  It's still as much fun on track too where the higher torque makes up for the banzai revving of the BEC.  Insurance for the Duratec is only £50 a year more so irrelevant really.

I think the maths say a lot - A Bird/Blade engine usually powers a bike weighing maybe 200kg, a Westy weighs 500 kg plus, a 2.0 Duratec or similar was designed to power a cars weighing over 1200kg, this has to count for something in terms of reliability and lifespan.

So my advice (and I'm still fairly new to this too) would be get a good drive in both, make sure the Mrs is ok with the choice for a happy household and get expert advice before you buy.  The new factory owners are a friendly bunch too so maybe it's worth giving them a ring too.

Enjoy finding the right Westy,

Mark

[Guest]

I think you have to testdrive a BEC before committing. They're quirky to say the least! Drive shunt, impossible reverse, crazy clutch, maintenance overhead, noise, heat, fumes... thats why I love it! However mine's for the traok so mental is good.

I chose the megabusa after various test rides including a blade. I found the blade power not up to what im looking for... bogs down when you pull away. Obviously a budget issue, but lower budget would have tempted me to CEC.

Just my 10p worth! Summary point: test rides.

[ChrisG]

- The clutch is, to put it mildly, tricky to use in traffic - you need a lot of practice, yes you do get used to it but I can honestly say I was never 100% comfortable (again less of an issue for a track biased machine), the sequential gearbox also takes some getting used to unless you are used to counting your gears on a bike.

- The whole car requires a fair amount of TLC due to the vibration, check this, tighten that so it depends how dirty you want to get your hands and how often.

On the upside they sound awesome - although you will deafen (and gas, with exhaust fumes) your passenger, the Mrs might not be too happy with that... She might also object to the back breaking driveline shunt each time you change gear!

Although the clutch on most BECs is lighter than your average car engine and there's little flywheel effect so they aren't diesel-like in their pulling away characteristics, a lot of it's useability is more down to setup (pedal ratios etc), the clutch plates used, and to a certain extent technique which you learn after a while, rather than an inherent "trickiness" to all BEC clutches. My blade was a bit tricky but when I installed the R1 engine I looked at the ratios etc a bit and in conjunction with the slightly larger R1 clutch, I now have a setup that I can pull away at idle with no throttle or hold on the clutch on an incline and still not stall.

Im also not convinced that BECs need significantly more TLC than a car engine'd car, Ive had one for 5+ years and very rarely does anything come loose or break because of vibration, so if things are always working loose / breaking on a particular car I think its more down to car prep than an inherent BEC issue TBH.

Ditto the gassing / exhaust fumes issue, the silencer exits in the same place on both cars so if fumes are getting into the car then its likely to be a leaky manifold which could be the same with any car, and if not and its just blowing in from the silencer exit, its something that will happen regardless of engine anyway.

Driveline shunt - again we can mention technique / familiarity here. Sequential boxes need a different shifting technique to a car gearbox, if you do as you do in your tintop (dip clutch fully, change gear slowly, lift clutch up again) its likely to be very uncomfortable and shunty, but if you get used to banging the gears as quick as possible with just a small lift of the throttle and little (or no) clutch dip then upchanges will be as smooth as anything. Having said that, when pootling in traffic its sometimes hard to use this technique and in those circumstances it can be a bit more of a pain.

Sorry if I appear to be picking loads of holes in your comments Mark, for what its worth I agree with the comments on why not to pick a bird, and I wouldnt disagree that a CEC in a lot of circumstances does make a better road car than a BEC, but I don't necessarily think some of the reason's you've given are strictly an issue with most cars as they're mostly things you'd likely have adapted to or overcome (like the rest of us have) if you'd decided to keep your car.

cheers

Chris

[moomin]

So my advice (and I'm still fairly new to this too) would be get a good drive in both

this is the best thing to do, some people like BECs, some prefer CECs, it'd be boring if we all liked the same things, right?

glad you have found Westfield pleasure in the end, Mark  

moomin

[Jumpy07]

Thanks for all of your suggestions, all of them valid.

I did have one concern around the reliability of a CEC.. and there would seam to be some basis for that.

I have arranged to go and view a Megablade in Edinburgh on Sat ( Not sure if the seller is on the forum).  

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws....&ih=006

I have also found an uncompleted CEC nearby build although its built on a Locust chassis which looks interesting...  was originallly engined with a CVH so most of the work looks done.. which I will also view..

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws....&ih=007

Would welcome your thoughts on both cars..

Best Regards

Craig

[wildwesty]

The mega looks like a cracking BEC and ticks your boxes....... the other item you have listed however does not!! IMHO

I think the Mega is known on here ive seen it before.... someone will be along soon.

has the engine got a warranty?

[Jumpy07]

My first question was about warranty on the engine, answer was no...  

The engine was put together by the Kit Car Factory and was installed by a bike shop in Edinburgh I believe..

I have higher quality pics and there are quite a lot of chips on the car as well as rust on the front suspension and roll bar.. so it looks as if it needs some TLC.. also looks like it seen a fair few track days..

Owner did mention the reverse gearbox needs a blip of the throttle and clutch technic to engage.. but guess this is normal..

The owner has only had the car for 18 months.. prior to that another Edinburgh owner.. will know more after Sat..  

Many Thanks

Craig

[Davektm]

Hi Guys,

First post here although I have been lurking for a few months too.

I was in the same position as you until a few nights ago, I have been looking for cars for a while and being in the north of Scotland it is hard to find anything up here. I nearly bought a Locost locally then didn't and looked at loads of pics of Westie's for sale but the other night I took a gamble on what looks like a bargain near Birmingham and bought it on Ebay on the back of the pics! I know it breaks all the rules but it seems a good deal so I took the chance, I am flying down to pick it up on Saturday and drive it back to the north of Scotland with no weather gear!!!!!!

Davie.

[Jumpy07]

Dave, best of luck, hope all goes well,  

Send me the link so I can have a look and let me know how you get on..

Best Regards

Craig

[Davektm]

I will post some pics once i get it home, if I make it home!!!  

[samcooke]

QUOTE

I now have a setup that I can pull away at idle with no throttle or hold on the clutch on an incline and still not stall.

From cold?

It seems that Cuprastar had a bad experience, which is fair enough. But plenty of people have had thousands of miles in birds without such poor luck - what's yours up to moomin?

There's also lots on here who have had CECs blow up.

Some research, some advice, some testdrives and a bit of luck is what you'll need.