The Megabird has died

[Cuprarstar]

I will give you the full breakdown as soon as I get it from Mike - he's working on the car next week so we will know the full details then.  As for costs on the Bird engine I have already had some good prices for rebuild or replacement.  I have also been told I can get good money back on the engine/engine parts/power commander etc in it's current state if a different engine was to go in the car (very unlikely).

The current plan will be to repair the Bird properly (new engine most likely given the small difference in cost vs repair) and dry sump it to minimise any future problems - and do all the other minor work like tidy up the wiring, put the right brake master cylinder on, brace the drivers seat for trackwork, proper RAC roll bar and 13" wheels rather than the 15"s on it at the moment.  I want to make sure it's utterly relaible and fit for purpose before I sell it on - I want the next owner to enjoy the car as it was intended and I have absolute confidence that Auto-pro can prepare my car to this sort of standard. For me thought, I have pretty much decided I would prefer a car engined Westy (probably a Duratec) or a VX/Elise/Exige (or maybe stretch to an Atom) and to start again - more a confidence/trust thing than anything else.  I tried the cheaper option so now I am willing to raid my piggy bank for something I can enjoy out of the box.

And as for Bird engines being strong I agree, it was a reason I chose Honda power - usually unburstable and my biker friends agree - they have never seen a problem on one (without moon-mileage or silly abuse).  They have seen tuned/turbo Bird engines have problems with the output shaft/sprocket becoming detached and this damaging the big end - which still remains the most likely diagnosis on my car.  All the bike tuner can suggest is the extra stress the car weight places on the engine was the cause of this problem when the propshaft became detached - he said all along the engine could not survive the stress of the sudden unload even at low speed/revs.

So I don't know exactly the problem on my engine yet but there is another Bird (anyone on this site?) in with Auto-Pro at moment who has been even more unlucky then me.  The builder-owner had just finished the build and not even SVA'd the car but decided to give it a run on a trackday...2 laps and the conrod on piston 3 let go, probable oil starvation problem.  I think that car also suffered more than just engine damage in the process so I count my blessings.

As for unlucky yep I think so, it's that or the previous owner made a very shrewd move in selling the car when they did ;-0.  Looking for positives from the experience I have learned a lot about keeping a positive outlook and finding solutions - and that waiting 'until the time is right' to get a Westfield may have been the wrong choice!!!

[perksy]

Sorry to hear of your Bad luck

Not a good start to Westy ownership  

This could of ended with you having an accident and getting injured, So it's a Positive/Goodthing that this Didn't

happen  

If your interested in looking at a Duratech Westy i'd be having a look at this one  CLICKY

Don't let one bad experience put you off Westfields

For the Money, Nothing comes close...

[Cuprarstar]

If the 'Bird was repaired and sold that is exactly the car I would be looking for!  Typical.

I am slightly shy of Westfields now I have never had this much of a problem with any car before, but the right car, after plenty of expert checking, could tempt me to stay with the brand.

[ChrisG]

.........there is another Bird (anyone on this site?) in with Auto-Pro at moment who has been even more unlucky then me.  The builder-owner had just finished the build and not even SVA'd the car but decided to give it a run on a trackday...2 laps and the conrod on piston 3 let go, probable oil starvation problem.  I think that car also suffered more than just engine damage in the process so I count my blessings.

Sadly this is fairly common for 'bird engines in BECs on trackdays, they are bullet proof in the bikes but do have a bit of a poor reputation in cars when compared to say busas, R1s or blades due to oil surge problems (which you dont get in the bike).

I dont remember the exact reason but its related to the way that the oil gets to the crank on piston no3, which leaves it very susceptable to failure if there is even a small amount of oil surge. On track the absolute minimum seems to be a baffle plate and an Accusump, but dry sumping is by far the safest option, I remember a trackday at Anglesey a few years ago where two 'bird BECs went pop in the same session on the same corner, and both had Accusumps IIRC.

Chris

[Cuprarstar]

Thanks Chris, good to hear some similar stories to the ones I am being told from both bike and Westy world people - everything is starting to add up!

[moomin]

I dont remember the exact reason but its related to the way that the oil gets to the crank on piston no3, which leaves it very susceptable to failure if there is even a small amount of oil surge

The oil feed to the number 3 main bearing is split to provide the oil feed to balancer shafts. Hence this is always the weakest point if oil supply gets marginal, and that's why the majority of BBs throw rod number 3.

An alternative solution is to remove the balancer shafts and block the split oil feed to them - I'd guess you would get away with a baffle plate like any other bike engine (as none of the other have balancer shafts) then - apparently you also get throttle response like a 600, as you can remove the balancer drive wheel off the crankshaft, and also lose a few kilos in the process

BB still makes a superb road-biased BEC IMO - very smooth due to balancers, good torque curve (mine will pull from 2krpm). Mine hasn't missed a beat in 5 years and 12k miles... hmmm I suppose I owe it a service now  

Edited to add: hard luck re engine death, will also be interested to hear what has actually caused it.

moomin

[longshanks]

QUOTE

BB still makes a superb road-biased BEC IMO - very smooth due to balancers, good torque curve (mine will pull from 2krpm).

Definitely agree.  Provided they're dry sumped, they seem to be pretty robust, and it's a great engine in terms of power delivery.  I've only had mine on the road since October, but it's done a couple of trackdays without problems (fingers crossed it lasts as well as Moomin's!)

Anyhoo, keep us updated with progress on the rebuild Cuprarstar!  

[Cuprarstar]

Well I now have the full detail on the Bird and the cost to repair and my decision about the future...

So the engine problem was the conrod on the 3rd piston - and without more investigation and expensive work it's not really possible to say what the exact cause was (oil surge of some kind remains a good bet) - and no more expense is required at the moment.

The full cost of repair and sorting the parts other issues that needed sorting, if kept as a 'Bird, is estimated at just a little less than £5K including:

- New Bird engine and Dry Sump kit - a new item so not strictly part of the repair (around £3K all in) the main cost item and then the other issues:

-  Mount the oil cooler the right way up...(dont ask) the shoulders are very close to ground level.

- Repair reverse gearbox - leaky seals from the propshaft problems.

- Make good some wiring/fan issues (fairly minor).

- Right Master Cylinder for the 4-Pots.

- 13" Wheels and Toyo 888 tyres (around £600ish all in)

- Front ARB

- Full suspension set up

- RAC Roll Bar and fittings

- And the time for all of the above.

This could be offset a little by the sale of items like the broken engine (still worth something), 15" wheels, accusump, master cylinder, road roll bar etc but not much of a dent in the price really.

Although it sounds like a lot of cash initially it would be a well sorted and relaible car afterwards...but as you can tell by me saying 'would be' it's not the way I am going to go.

Having learned my BEC lessons the hard way I am going to give Westfield another try but this time a Duratec engined car - which is where I had been headed in the first place - strange how things work out.

I'm working out the details on what we do with the 'Bird and the spec of a new Duratec car with Mike this week - which will be much more of a balance between road and track use - screen and side screens for a start!  Oh and this time I am going to be getting some lessons in how to maintain and check the Duratec car from day one.

Westfield ownership is still an itch I have to scratch so I'm staying in the fold for now and looking forward to happier times.  Now...what do I need to know about Duratec ownership??

[DIY Si]

If your're still looking at getting your engine repaired, when I blew mine up, due to oiling issues on no 3 big end, I sold my old carb'd engine for £300, and brought an FI X11 engine for £400. The X11 is the 5 speed tourer version, and is missing a middle gear (top is still the same), and the cams are different. Get some 'Bird cams and you're back to normal power. Total cost (excluding FI fuel pump and related bits) £100!