The Megabird has died

[moomin]

Sorry to read of further problems  

Is it an injection engine or carbs?  If it is the former, there is a diagnostic light on the ECU, which will tell you if there are any fault codes - i.e. dead sensor etc.  The diagnostic method is outlined in the Haynes manual for the Blackbird bike, or I can send you a copy if you need it.

QUOTE

There are a lot of Blackbird engined cars that are running very well with a dry sump system.

Thanks for the balance there Steve     I did 900 miles on tour in mine at the weekend, and it never missed a beat.

There are some that are running very well without a dry sump - one guy has clocked 60k miles now (with an Accusump for road use), and it gets driven very hard, but he said it is a bit smokey now!

moomin

[busapower2001]

A long shot but worth doing as it is cheap and quick to do and you never know plus they will come in handy as spares any way!

Buy some new fuses from Halfords and change over the normal westfield housed fuses. I had 2 fuses fail mechanically (not electrically) a while ago....  Clicky (Pic at bottom).

[Steve L]

Although I have had a Westfield for a few years now, I still consider myself a novice, so I have one question and one modest suggestion.

First of all, why should an engine not survive the propshaft coming loose? I just don't see the relationship.

Second, to the engine stopping dead. In 35 years of driving old junkers, I have had lots of engines stop dead. Once it was a conrod bearing. Once it was the shaft to the distributor. Too often it was lack of petrol. Otherwise, it has always been down to the electrics.

Have you gone through the ignition, starting by removing a plug, grounding it against the engine and looking for a big, fat healthy spark? I emphasise that with the good spark, because I have fooled myself before with a weak little spark into thinking that the ignition was okay. And if there is a spark, but a weak one, in my limited experience, the problem has always been the coil.

In any case, I wish you quick success with solving the problem. You have already had enough problems to cover your share for the next three years, I would say.

And remain optimistic.

Steve

[Terry Everall]

Take the plugs out and with a fully charged battery press starter

Does it turn over without any nasty noises?

[Cuprarstar]

Thanks again - I will give all of your suggestions a try tomorrow when I have more time.

The good news is expert help and a dry sump system (fingers crossed the Bird engine is OK) is on the way.  Believe me I am still optimistic and just keeping focus on the day when I can look forward to track adventures and a relaible 900 mile road trip!

[Terry Everall]

Update please?

[The Great Fandango]

I'm no expert when it comes to bike engines, but what I've seen of the Yamaha R1 engine has converted me permanently.

(and there I was thinking one day I'd end up with a highly tuned Zetec, Duratec or Busa).

My car actually has a Fazer 1000 engine which is virtually the same as the R1, just carbed, some different internals, and detuned for less revs and more torque. It has taken everything I can throw at it and hasn't skipped a beat (even when I've taken the temperature way higher than recommended). It keeps up with the R1's too!

You can pick up a good Fazer engine for about £500 (if you're lucky), and an R1 for £700 (again if you're lucky).

Some people mentioned the wiring though... That would be your main problem if shifting to a different 'brand' of engine.

[steve_m]

First of all, why should an engine not survive the propshaft coming loose? I just don't see the relationship.

I don't know either, no reason unless the prop flies around and damages the engine casings.  

I guess if it was run with a loose prop then the gearbox output shaft might need to be renewed along with the bearing but again as long as the casings are not damaged then it should be OK.

[Cuprarstar]

Ah well good news at last - the Bird left today on a transporter with Mike Ellis from Autopro-Motorsport, an update on the real issues with the car by Thursday.  We wait to hear on the engine so fingers crossed that it is electrical/minor.

The good news is the car - as I had thought - is well built and otherwise sound (and I paid an OK price!), the builder seemed more focussed on nice fit and finish over the more technical oily bits.  It needs a few modifications for safe and reliable track use but no show stoppers which is a good thing.  

Some of the things I have learnt today that I would have never spotted:

- The roll bar, while OK for the road would not really be up for track use - an RAC one more securely attached to the chassis is required.

- The car has a standard brake cylinder but 4-pots, so this ideally need to be upgraded.

-  The accusump has a number of issues - the main one being where it is connected to the engine/sump - it's rigidly fixed and under vibration/track use could easily come into contact with the chassis which would equal one quick and expensive loss of oil.

-  The reverse gearbox problem is a seemingly a minor one - new front seals may be required as a result of the propshaft problems - although the minor oil loss may have been the gearbox simply finding its natural oil level.

-  My Megabird has really been built as a bit of a mix - neither full on track nor comfy road spec so there is a choice to be made.  The 15" wheels raise the ride and the car could do with much stickier tyres.  The seats will need bracing for heavier track use etc.

- All in all I have learnt that BEC's require a lot more TLC than their car based brothers.  

So the future -

First I am going to spend the cash getting this car spot on and then either keep her and rebuild my confidence in the car

or

Sell what I know will be a very well sorted machine and buy a Duratec engined car with a greater road bias.

A lesson learned, and I will keep you updated on progress and cost.  All in all it has been an experience and a tale that is great to tell in the pub!  I was utterly seduced by the sound, performance, sequential gears of the BEC over the car engine, and just like a woman there is always a price to pay for that seduction!  So with my wallet about to be raided a little more I now know why they called it a MegaBIRD!

Again thanks for the advice - much appreciated,

Mark

[ljsanders]

Good luck with getting your car sorted out. Keep us informed.

A couple of things. You don't really need 4 pots on a Westy. Standard M16 fronts are more than up for most abuse with some good pads like Mintex 1144's. I've got a AP Racing Cylinder with the M16's and it improves the feel of the brake pedal greatly. Most people who do track days are on M16's still.

You don't need a RAC Rollbar, although its highly recommended. Although I wouldn't like to be in a Westy if you flip one, the only difference is you are more likely to survive it with a RAC Rollbar than without.

[moomin]

QUOTE

The reverse gearbox problem is a seemingly a minor one - new front seals may be required as a result of the propshaft problems - although the minor oil loss may have been the gearbox simply finding its natural oil level.

This may be a case of "they all do that sir" - there is probably a breather of some sort on there (if it is the Westfield branded reverse box - there is a pin-hole on the top at the back), and a little bit of oil coming out makes alot of mess.  Another reason why I removed mine.

QUOTE

All in all I have learnt that BEC's require a lot more TLC than their car based brothers.

Maybe, but I would argue that there isn't much in it really. There are a few "BECisms" that you need to be aware of - and you seem to be learning these the hard way - but mine gets a proper check over once per year, and seems to just keep working. I guess it might be a bit different when you have built the car, I know what I'm looking at and for.

Anyway, good luck getting it sorted, then drive it a bit, then decide if you fancy a change.  A BEC can be a fine road car, and the Blackbird is really the ideal engine for that bias.

moomin

[Cuprarstar]

Update 12 June 07

Well as suspected it was the engine that had gone on the car, and also several problems with the wiring which all needs a good upgrade - so both sets of advice were right!  Although its a difficult start at least we now know what all the problems are and can decide what to do next.  Full analysis of problems and prices to fix to follow next week.

Mike Ellis at Autopro-Motorsport has been a great help, collecting the car and detailing all the problems, options and prices for getting the Bird sorted for the right purpose.

I'm considering what type of Westfield or other fun track/occasional road car I really want after this little adventure and will keep you updated on what I decide on - the brand new VX220T I passed on the week before buying the Westy looks like a mighty good buy now!  It's also a shame I didn't do my research first and know about Auto-Pro - I'd probably have had a car built to my spec but you don't know what you don't know.

I used to think paying about £3K in track car hire fees (and another £2K for the actual trackdays/travel etc etc) a year was a lot to own nothing at the end and a Westfield would give me the same experience for about the same price (over the life of the car/buying/running etc).  Instead I'm looking at similar costs without the trackday fun at the moment.  So no real loss at the moment and a lot of experience gained - even if it wasn't the experience I first imagined!

[ChrisG]

Ive half pondered something like a VX220 for trackdays instead of my BEC as it would get a lot more (road) use so possibly better VFM, but whenever I did the quick sums in my head it always came out considerably more expensive. Things you need to bear in mind are the additional costs of insurance and/or the cost of throwing it at the scenery on a trackday. I know the Westie is probably worth not a lot less than the VX as a working car, but they are much easier / cheaper to repair if the unfortunate does happen, and is something you could largely tackle yourself if needs be so trackday insurance isn't quite as critical. Also, annual insurance for the road is only a couple of hundred quid on the BEC compared to maybe 3x that for the VX plus an additional £100 per annum on car tax.

[Jenko]

It would be interesting for all of us if you could tell us what actually has 'gone' on the engine.......As mentioned Bird engines are normally strong...........

I think you have been VERY unlucky.....this is the worst story of a new buyer I've heard.......How about throwing in another Blackbird engine?....Can't believe that would be too much hassle, and not much money....

[ljsanders]

Seconded. Not really for our sake, for your sake. You should find out what specifically went wrong in the engine so that you can decide how to stop it from happening again in the future  (ie. what mod could be done, such as dry sumping ?)