The Megabird has died

[Cuprarstar]

For those who want to skip to the end - how do I get this westfield properly repaired once and for all!!

Some of you may have been following the story of my purchase, 3 weeks ago, of a 1 year old 380 mile Megabird - well after a new problem every week I can now officially announce the car has this time died - seemingly terminally!

A recap on the problems - 100 miles in the propshaft detached from the engine output at 30mph and destroyed the water pump, clutch linkages etc.  Easily repaired one week later with help from Thunder Road and Westfield stores.  I learnt more about kit car engineering in one week than I ever knew before, job done.  A respected bike engine tuner told me at the time there was no way the engine would survive this...it seemed it had but how wrong can you be!

200 miles and still running in and a slight weep from the reverse gearbox emerges - not a really big problem, just a regular top up of oil required and new seals in a week or so.  No issues with the car, suspension settings need sorting properly but otherwise all was looking good.

Until today when for no apparent reason (probably related to the propshaft problem) the engine developed a slight rattle (and I mean slight) and stopped at approx 5mph.  The gear linkage still works and I was able to select neutral for the 100 yard push home!  So in 3 weeks the car has arrived home on a trailer, the end of a tow rope and now being pushed by me and 2 neighbours (great entertainment for the kids in the street)! And yes it will turn over but no it won't start, there was no oil loss, oil pressure was good, and only about 90 gegree on the temp dial - the car has an Accusump. So it seems the bike tuner was right the engine didn't survive...arrgh!!

Anyway I had booked the car in with Autopro Motorsport so they could look at the reverse gearbox and suspension and also to get a dry sump fitted before any trackday use.  So are they still my best option to get whatever need sorting sorted or does anyone else you know specialise in this type of work??  I'm tempted to call the factory to see what they could do but am well aware of the mixed reviews they get too.

Having waited years for a Westfield I was hoping for a lot of track and road fun so this has been a big surprise and learning curve.  Despite how it seems I'm still positive about getting the car sorted out and on the track this season (maybe I am just being an optimist) - at the end of the day it's a car and no one has been hurt in the process of any of the problems - I will just have to earn a few more pennies!

I have learned a lot about how willing people are to help when problems arise so here I am again asking if you can recommend someone who can help sort out this small problem and help me make the right moves to get me back to enjoying the experience I hoped for!

Also would you stay with the Bird engine or move to the Busa - I suspect the costs will escalate for this but it sounds as if it may be wort it in the long run for reliability etc.

Thanks again,

Mark

[longshanks]

Matt,

Really sorry to hear of the problems you've had.  I followed your initial thread about the output shaft flange, which was bad enough, but this is a real shame.  (From a purely selfish point of view, it also makes me even more nervous about my own Megabird, as every few months I hear another story of one going pop in a BEC.)  From your description of the failure, it may not be oil starvation that has done the damage in your case; perhaps there was some terminal damage done when the driveshaft failed.  

Either way, I think I'd recommend going for another type of engine if the bird has indeed gone south (excuse the pun   ); perhaps R1 or Busa.  Even if you did want to go for another Blackbird engine, I'd recommend fitting a proper dry sump system, as I've read about and seen a lot of engines with accusump systems failing.

In terms of who to go to to get the work done, I don't know anything about Autopro Motorsport, so can't be of help there.  The obvious names that spring to mind would be either Holeshot or TTS-Engineering (google them for contact details).

You've definitely got the right attitude to it - there's no point letting it get you down.  You've had a pretty horrendous start to your Westy experience, but it can only get better from here on!

Anyway, on the bright side, you'll be a BEC expert by the time you've finished.     If fact, I'll probably call on you for advice in the future if/when mine gives up the ghost!!     *crosses fingers and hopes this is not the near future*    

Graham

[Terry Everall]

Before you decide you need to find out what is wring with the Bird and can it be repaired quickly and cheaply?

If you do change the Blades are reliable even without dry sump but Busa with dry sump is awesome machine

Are there any local guys who could help?

[Cuprarstar]

ok thanks for the replies, unfortunately there don't seem to be any local specialists.

I will find out what is wrong with the Bird engine first (if I can find anyone who can do so!) but if it starts to get pricey the dry sump Busa option seems like the way to go.  Oil starvation seems very unlikely given the speeds/revs/gentle driving involved - my confidence hadn't recovered from the prop shaft incident to even slightly push on.

I will give Autopro another call tomorrow and explain what has happened and see where we go from there.

[moochofun]

Is your probelm definately mechanical? Could it be electrical? Reason I ask is I've had a lot of electrical gremlins with my blade this year (hopefully solved now though ).

Where abouts is your rattle coming from - top/bottom end, gearbox? I've had a few engines let go in the past with a sudden loss of oil - as long as their not doing high rpm, I've never had a problem with fixing the leak and pouring in more oil - could just be luck though

You mention the cost issue of a Busa - have you thought of an R1, ZX10, Blade, ZX9, GSXR1000 etc - these are all cheaper options to buy and fix (if it should go pete tong). I've never driven a Busa (yet) but there surely can't be that much of a difference (well up to 100mph) - or am I just being naive ? I just can't bring myself to spend £2-3k on a Busa engine when a blade engine costs +/-£600............

Keep positive though, and I hope you find your solution soon.

[Terry Everall]

value for money and standard Westfield engine cradle etc suggests Blade is a good route to go.

But if you want real power on track or sprinting etc the Busa is best. On the road both are very similar

[higgsti]

sounds like electrics to me too although you are a little vague with your disciption of what happened when it stopped.the slight rattle could be due to electrical fault .was the oil in the engine and what colour is it .have you checked you have a spark etc .another thing ive had is the big connector block under dash gets corroded terminals and this can cause the car to cut out.i think terry is refering to local members who might help .

[Cuprarstar]

Ok the good news is the car is off to Auto-Pro Motorsport for a proper check up, I explained what happened and they seemed up for the job - just finalising transport arrangements over the next couple of days.  If the Bird engine has a major problem they have recommended a Blade so this seems sensible on reflection and cost.

The rattle seemed to be coming from the bottom of the engine??  I think the sudden stop felt more mechanical than electrical but I really don't know so I am guessing.  Car won't turn over or start now.  No oil was lost and the oil I can see/on the dipstick is completely clear - we changed the oil and filter as a precaution after the propshaft problems.  I have checked the plugs etc and there is nothing really obvoius (though it would have to be for me to even notice).  

So the good news is there is some light at the end of the tunnel.  I will keep you updated on any further developments.

[steve_m]

There are a lot of Blackbird engined cars that are running very well with a dry sump system.

It would be much cheaper to stay with the bird engine, swapping to a different engine may still require a dry sump, but will also mean new exhaust, new cradle, possibly new fuel fittings etc, plus a bare bbird engine without the anciliaries should be less than £1000, same or cheaper than a blade engine.

[higgsti]

do the lights etc work ?.on the blade engined car i had there was a 30 amp fuse on the honda loom dont know if the bird is  the same .your symptems point to electracal problem have you checked fuses earths leads etc .try all these b4 spending your money they are things you can try yourself.if you get electrical fault it will feel like mechanical because the engine isnt getting the voltage it needs to run

[moochofun]

do the lights etc work ?.on the blade engined car i had there was a 30 amp fuse on the honda loom dont know if the bird is  the same .your symptems point to electracal problem have you checked fuses earths leads etc .try all these b4 spending your money they are things you can try yourself.if you get electrical fault it will feel like mechanical because the engine isnt getting the voltage it needs to run

Yep, what higgsti says.

I had two situations with mine:

1. No dash lights, or any electrics = the main 30amp fuse had gone (well mine sorta melted due to the overheating of the starter solenoid - my starter button had stuck in and I didn't notice ) The fuse was okay but it had b*******ed the solenoid.

2. Had dash lights/electrics but still wouldn't turn the engine over - Voltage Reg/Rect had overheated - needed a bump when cooled down and ran fine until it overheated again. Running with my lights on etc advanced the time til breakdown, the reg/rectifier wasn't charging the battery at all. The reg/rectifier checked out okay in testing as layed out in the haynes manual. A new voltage reg was put in and now I haven't had a problems since.

On both occasions the car was running fine then came to a stop - a bit like someone had turned the igntion off. Checking/changing out the starter solenoid & rectifier might be an idea before engine change - unless the folk you're taking it too know for definite what has went wrong................ Mechanically, engines are farily logical, the way you describe it has me scratching my head as I can't think of a reason for it not running - suck, push, bang, blow etc.................. If it has fuel and a spaerk, it's bound to run/turn over - even if rattly. Unless major damage

Can you attempt to bump start the car i.e. see if it will turn over by pushing it - with the car in gear or does it just lock completely??

Could it be a duff battery also?

HTH and I'm not confusing matters or going over stuff that you have already done

Good luck though

[Cuprarstar]

Hi and thanks for the advice/things to try - this just gets more and more weird!

Yes we have lights and all other electrics and the battery is showing full charge (could still be dodgy though I guess).  So I took out the 30amp fuse as suggested - it was fine, put it back in and hey presto the engine started first time and ran very lumpy for about 15 seconds, making a very slight rattle (sounded a bit like something ticking) and then stopped again.

[higgsti]

this may sound daft but you have changed the fuse because there is one outside the rubber casing which is a spare .if youve got a bad earth ,faulty plug lead ,regulator etc you will get the problems you describe.check all the bike loom connections too.have you got a manual for the bike.also worth checking the main fuse blocks for bad fuses /connections.id check all these b4 you let this company have a look they are simple things to check

[moochofun]

Cool, at least you got some progress, even if it doesn't run smooth yet................

It could well just be a dodgy solenoid or regulator/rectifier - eBay is the place (or a local breakers if you have one). I got quite frustrated at mine as everything checked out okay when testing each of my items (as per the Haynes manual) so it may just be better to get other ones - and keep them as spares if it still doesn't work

Good luck

PS Any other megabirds around your area that you could pilfer from? Maybe someone on here would be willing to meeet up and lend you the items? I have a spare solenoid for my blade kicking about if it's any help to you - not too sure on the part number tho?

[steve_m]

Also if it's not idling at the right speed/erratic it will sound like a bag of spanners on the back of a camel, my engine is the same.