Cam upgrade - which to go for?

[Jenko]

Agree...the 40's will be good for 160bhp, then they start to get restrictive.....You gould go to 36mm chokes, but to be honest, 45's would flow better at that choke size.......

For the head work, If t was me, I would get the cams and head porting done at the same time...I know the zetec flows quite well, but I'm not convinced simply changing the cams without improving the rest of the breathing would help that much........

why not try the head and cam work, up the size of the main jets (always better done on a RR), stick the 40's back on and see what happens........

A TB upgrade is not cheap, and if you do stick with carbs, it may be worth getting the inlet manifold matched to the ports at the same time..........I had mine done by paceyports, who did a cracking job for a VERY reasonable price..............

[Carl]

Gez,

for some good no nonsense advice e-mail Dave at DVA power. He is very experienced with the Zetec and allot cheaper than Dunell, Raceline, etc

DVApower@aol.com

Carl

[chazpowerslide]

If you are intent on head work give Andy at Schollar a call, thay do a CNC machined head with std valve sizes that thay sat will add about 12BHP with standard 130 cams and up to 20BHP with hotter cams.

The head is reasonably priced (£325 exchange plus VAT seems to ring a bell somewhere) which is a fair bit cheaper than some of the other Zetec specialists.

Cams can be had for a reasonable price second hand BUT you really need to know what you are looking at before parting with your cash but you'll need to look hard to find them.

To get 200BHP from a Zetec it's going to be a fairly well developed engine and this is going to cost a fair bit, for a lot less you can get the most out of what you have and get the car to work better for you.

Chaz.

[Gez]

Thanks for the info guys... I have to add that 200 Bhp isn't a be all and end all figure, just a ball park of where I'm aiming at.

I realise that as I go for 'wilder' cams i will be losing low range etc to an extent, but am looking for cams that might minimise this - I don't know how much cams from different suppliers differ, but if people hve experience or knowledge of the difference this would be helpful to know.

Gez

[nikpro]

I don't know how much cams from different suppliers differ, but if people hve experience or knowledge of the difference this would be helpful to know.

Gez

They don't! They are all pretty similar, it just depends on the different profile from each manufacturer.

Kent FZ2002 are similar to the piper 285's and both do not reccomend fitting these without cylinder head modification.

[Hammy]

Bear in mind what has been said earlier - You are likely to end up with a narrower power band and without a close ratio box , it could actually be a slower car with a more powerful engine.

You ought to look at cost verses wot you will get, there are other ways of skinning this cat  - for example you could sell up and get a V8 car , lots of power and tree stump pulling torque, or aim for a more modest increase in power and/or swap the gearbox - try and work out what each option costs and wot you will get  - the last 15bhp always costs the most.

Finally wots the mileage of the motor, I'm guessings its not a new one  - it may need a good rebuild if you want it to survive ??

[Carl]

QUOTE

I realise that as I go for 'wilder' cams i will be losing low range etc to an extent, but am looking for cams that might minimise this

Gez,

I shouldn't worry about this, due to the low weight of the Westy you don't really notice moving the torque up the rev range a bit.

[skymike]

Hi guys,

This discussion is really interesting to me and answers a lot of the questions I have. I too have a 2.0l zetec, but running on 45's with a fast road cam set. I have a standard westy exhaust and omex management. Oh and a type 9-5 gear box.

I am getting about 160-165 bhp.

I too am wanting to upgrade and dont really understand the gearbox issues.

Is a type9-5 the best to go with giving the converstaions above?

Also would a better exhaust setup for example the raceline custome zetec exhaust also help?

[stu999]

I too am wanting to upgrade and dont really understand the gearbox issues.

Is a type9-5 the best to go with giving the converstaions above?

Also would a better exhaust setup for example the raceline custome zetec exhaust also help?

The standard gearbox ratio's (MT75 or Type 9) are quite frankly pants for a sports car - after all, they were designed to get a heavily laden Sierra towing a caravan moving on an incline. In other words, first gear is *far* too low, and the rest of the ratio's are spread out to compensate.

Sadly, there are no (reasonably priced) gear kits available for the MT75 as I know of - but there is quite a good choice for the Type 9.

A performance exhaust system is likely to help too, although potential gains are difficult to predict

[chazpowerslide]

As Stu says, the standard ratios in the MT75 and Type 9 are far from ideal for a lightweight sports car like a Westy.

By getting a taller first gear you can have the rest of the ratios spaced closer together so the 'box is more "useable"

My close ratio type 9 gives 48MPH (at 6200 RPM) in first meaning only 1 change to 60MPH.

This gives a very rapid rate of acceleration particularly as the rest of the ratios are spaced nice and close to each other (around the 1-1 fourth gear) so you get less of a drop in revs with each gear which keeps you in the more useable part of the torque/power range of the motor.  

To be honest I was absolutly astonished at the difference when I swapped over from the standard to close ratio 'box.

The car feels like it's got another 20-30BHP and the flexibility that the EFI conversion has added has overcome any tractability issues that may have been caused by the taller 1st gear.

The grunt seems relentless to over 100mph and its still accelerating at 125mph (at RAF Marham's main runway)

Bearing in mind that my 2.0 Zetec is (currently) making only 155BHP and 143lbs/ft of torque I rekon the real world performance of the car is pretty astonishing particularly in terms of outright acceleration and A/B road blasting

For the record I'm running an aeroscreen (which is soooo much better than a full screen and adds to the +90MPH acceleration) and the car is pretty much stripped out (no carpets/heater ect)

If you have an MT75 'box, swapping for a type 9 will allow you to move the motor back a bit too which will alledgeadly help the handling.

If I was starting on an upgrade path with a new car a close ratio 'box would be very high on my list of things to do along with suspension, 13" wheels and tyres and weight loss.

Getting more poke out of the engine would pretty low on my list.

Chaz.

[skymike]

Can anyone recommend a close ration type 9 kit then and where to get it?

[stu999]

Can anyone recommend a close ration type 9 kit then and where to get it?

Quaife, and Tran-x spring to mind for gear kits if you fancy upgrading a box yourself, or they can supply in fully built form. BGH is also a name that springs to mind for close ratio gearboxes.

Keep your eyes peeled for S/H units - they do sometimes appear.

[tex]

i have just ordered this - from a stock engine dunnells injection system gives higher power than most i have seen - its not cheap (neither is any other way unless you buy bit by bit an know what your doing) but is virtually plug and play, is upgradeable.. dunnell uses a 4 stage option choice.. so when you want more you buy next pack.. without binning anything..

they will even supply you with a matched exhaust manifold to get your new exhaust built up... full back up...

OPTION KIT 4

This is primarily our RMP 1590 injection system, and forms the basis from which to further develop your Zetec engine to achieve power outputs exceeding 240+ bhp.

The CFMS system is a fully sequential Injection system, and is supplied fully calibrated for the 1.8 or 2.0 litre Zetec engines. It should not be necessary for any additional calibration requirement, thus eliminating the added cost of a rolling road session. Lambda support with full adaptive learning is available for emission control.

2.0 litre = 172 - 175 bhp

1.8 litre = 163 - 166 bhp

CFMS ECU

Light Alloy inlet manifold & gasket

2x Throttle bodies

Fuel rail

Nylotron trumpets

Centre linkage

Throttle potentiometer

Air sensor

Barometric pressure sensor (inbuilt)

Race wiring loom with all connectors

Fuel pressure regulator

4x high flow injectors

UCAMS software & manual

Lambda sensor (Optional)

2.0 litre = 190 - 195 bhp

1.8 litre = 180 - 183 bhp

OPTION 5 kit

As per option kit 4, plus:

2x Dunnell ZRV camshafts retaining standard hydraulic tappets

The option 5 kit has, in addition to the base option 4 Kit, two camshafts from our unique ZRV range. Again, the system is supplied fully calibrated, and should not require additional calibration, thus eliminating the added cost of a rolling road session. The supplied camshafts are a direct replacement for the standards Ford items.

2.0 litre = 215 - 220 bhp

1.8 litre = 200 - 205 bhp

 

OPTION 6 kit

Building on option kit 5, this kit includes:

RMP1590 - CFMS injection system

2x Dunnell ZRV camshafts retaining standard hydraulic tappets

Modified cylinder head (RMP101)

16x Competition high lift valve springs

Set of heavy duty connecting rod bolts  

OPTION 7 kit

2.0 litre = 232 - 238 bhp

1.8 litre = 219 - 222 bhp

This kit includes:

RMP1590 - CFMS injection system

2x Dunnell ZRV camshafts retaining standard hydraulic tappets

Modified large valve cylinder head

16x Competition high lift valve springs

2x Vernier camshaft pulleys

Set of heavy duty connecting rod bolts

This kit uses our latest camshaft design, together with a further increase in the specification of the cylinder head, including our RMP 702 race valves. Remarkably, the 2.0 litre Zetec to this specification is still fully road tractable, and even meets the SVA emissions legislation.

[chazpowerslide]

The only issue with this is that you are tied to Dunnell and Dunnell alone for further upgrades for your motor.

Now, I have absoultly nothing against Dunnell, I used one of their Clubman 3D ECU packages when I got my Zetec up and running and I know their kit is of good quality (I have their cooling system and inlet manifold on my car at present).

However, you are going to have to pay what ever they ask you to for your next upgrade (and they are at the high end on the market) as the ECU is only programmable by them and them alone (Unless they have very recently released their software) unless at a later date you swap the ECU to one that allows end user/3rd party mapping.

It also means although Dunnell quote specific power outputs for their kits, these figures are acheived on their own in house engine dyno (not a rolling road AFAIK) with engines they have built themselves under ideal conditions, your own motor in your own car is unlikly (IMMHO) to produce the power they quote on a rolling road.

As you are unable to have a rolling road opperator optimise the mapping to suite your particular engine (as only Dunnell can get into their ECU to re-map it) you "may" even loose out on optimum power or dammage the engine as a result.

The bits in the pic can be had as sepperate items from various manafactures for less than the package price, and then optimised by a skilled RR opperator via a programmable ECU.

All of the above is of course MVHO, as I say I have nothing against Dunnell, I have got on well with Paul in the dealings I've had with him and I've spent a good deal of money with them in the past, however when I went to EFI I was uncomfortable with the "one supplier Kit" route which is why Dunnell/Weber Alpha were discounted at a fairly early stage in my purchase descision.

Chaz.

[nikpro]

Let's face it - the throttle boddies aren't any different to jenveys and if the camshafts are standard then either their power outputs are very optimistic or they have unleashed a hidden secret with their ECU maps that no one else has found.

I tend to go with the side that their power figures are optimistic as everyone who runs a 1.8 zetec with throttle bodies and 130 cams reports 155bhp or there abouts. Dunnel are quotoing 163-166; this is 10% more than anyone else.........I have my doubts

Further to the last - it is impossible to map the ECU without knowing the exhaust that is being fitted - they can make a huge difference so don't believe the 'It won't need a RR session' hype either.