Channel 4

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

It seems to me that whatever the truth of the matter, it cannot hurt to economise on the use of what is a finite resource available largely from the world's most unstable/hostile countries. However, would it not be even more destructive of humankind to legislate ourselves back into the Dark Ages on the uncertain chance that Geelhoed and his learned colleagues just might be right? No, we must address, on several fronts, the fact that the Earth's climate is undoubtedly changing, and at the same time, improve the air quality, and dissociate ourselves in the Western world from being held to ransom by self-serving exploiters of our addiction to oil, and perchance develop new technologies that might not have seen the light of day otherwise. Work towards living with climate change, develop low-energy versions of existing technologies in the shorter term, and look to international co-operation to make nuclear fusion a practical technology in the longer term. But don't arbitrarily dump centuries of technological progress on the outside chance that some of it might be causing a few Centigrade degrees rise in global temperatures - use technology to adapt to it!

One thing has become apparent over the aeons of history and that is that those people who are the most certain about their opinions have it wrong more often than not. The Uncertain Ones are those with the open minds and ability to adopt new ideas.

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

QUOTE

What Gromit is pointing out, is the TOTAL rise in CO2 output is 0.005%.

Actually it is 0.014 percentage points rise, and a 56% rise at the same time. Unless my arithmetic is wrong.  

[steve_m]

Whatever the truth, it's interesting to hear what Geelhoed had to say, it's unusual to hear that side of the argument without the usual rhetoric and spin.

So..... what if Geelhoed is correct ?  What if GW is happening, it is heating up the planet, are we looking at a warmer climate in years to come ?  How much warmer ?

Do we care ?  Will it really affect us in the UK ?  If it makes Scotland habitable again perhaps it's a good thing !  

[geelhoed]

No. Your saying 250ppm to 390ppm is nearly a 50% rise in HUMAN CO2 output, which is correct. What Gromit is pointing out, is the TOTAL rise in CO2 output is 0.005%. I refer you again to p******** in the Atlantic.

Then gromit is completely wrong 39-25 is not 5 if 250 ppm is 0.0025 percent than 390 ppm is NOT 0.0030 percent. In my boot it should be 14.  but actually it is obviously 50% since the concentration is 50% higer.

If you get a 50% raise on your salary which amounts to 0.0000004% of the UK's gross national product do you say you got a 0.0000004% raise or a 50% raise?  

I say that te CO2 concentration is 50% higher than average of the last million years and that humans are to blaim for that. I didn't speak about emissions.

Me driving a westfield is the same as me driving another car. I do about 5000km a year an the rest I'm cycling. I'm not advocating banning all emissions but we can be a little more aware of the consequences. The discussion started about the 'documentary' and that CO2 is a hoax! I think it is not. And so do nearly all climatescientists!

[V8grunt]

I think it's all about raising money to replace the aging Trident nuclear missile system!    

What would you rather have, Two weeks in sunny Scotland.            

Or Nuclear war.

Don't forget the weapons of mass destruction that Saddam "Definitely"had!      

[geelhoed]

So..... what if Geelhoed is correct ?  What if GW is happening, it is heating up the planet, are we looking at a warmer climate in years to come ?  How much warmer ?

I'm sure you've heard that a rapid melt of the the northpole icecap would stop the global conveyor and stop the warm water coming from the caribian which heats the UK and europe to a nice 15Celcius.

Take NewYork for example, any idea on which lattitude that is located.) The same as Madrid!

It lacks the hot water from the caribian and has the same climate as a european city 20 degrees more to the north!

The future of Brittain could be a climate like Labrador which is on the same lattitude!  

[Martin Keene]

Then gromit is completely wrong 39-25 is not 5 if 250 ppm is 0.0025 percent than 390 ppm is NOT 0.0030 percent. In my boot it should be 14.  but actually it is obviously 50% since the concentration is 50% higer.

If you get a 50% raise on your salary which amounts to 0.0000004% of the UK's gross national product do you say you got a 0.0000004% raise or a 50% raise?  

I say I've got a 50% rise, because that is the most important piece of information, the difference it makes to the countries economy is s**t all... A bit like the human contribution to CO2...

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. FWIW, the picture of the sun in proportion to the earth sums it up for me. Mother Nature is a hell of a lot more powerful than anything we can do. This plant was here before we were and will continue to be after we are gone.

[Norman Verona]

As long as the Loire Valley stay warm.  

Being serious, I suspect that both camps are probably correct in some of the calculations.

However, I for one would not be prepred to gamble with the planets future. I may not be around to see the concequences but my children and their children will.

I may not have much to leave them but I can at least try and ensure they have as good a climatic life as I've had.

[a4gom]

Is this going to be shown again on one of CH4' s other channels by any chance, sound like it was an interesting programme.

[steve_m]

Is this going to be shown again on one of CH4' s other channels by any chance, sound like it was an interesting programme.

It was on More4 apparantly, probably will come back again as it contradicts everything BliarBC 1 and 2 are stating.

[peter pan]

With the exception of a `terrace' which occured 300 million years ago, global C02 levels for the last few million years are the lowest they have been since the Earths Formation 4.6 billion years ago.

I still have seen nothing which is shows wether  C02 follows warming, or warming follows C02.

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

Sunday Telegraph item here. Okay, I know it's the 'Torygraph', but it is interesting anyway.

This is how emotive it's all getting.  

[Gromit]

QUOTE

Then gromit is completely wrong 39-25 is not 5 if 250 ppm is 0.0025 percent than 390 ppm is NOT 0.0030 percent. In my boot it should be 14.  but actually it is obviously 50% since the concentration is 50% higer.

If you get a 50% raise on your salary which amounts to 0.0000004% of the UK's gross national product do you say you got a 0.0000004% raise or a 50% raise?  

Just goes to show that you can make statistics show anything you like and did you know that 84% of statistics are made up.

Right, i`m off down to B&Q in my old deisel transit to pick up another load of Brazillian hardwood flooring.

[peter pan]

Also advancing ice sheets will apparently also cut off the Atlantic conveyor.  Looks like either way we are stuffed!

[pistonbroke]

I belong to the party that believe GW,  as we like to call it , is here to stay , it is a natural phenomina , Its happened before and it will happen again .

There are periods when the earth warms up and periods when it cools down again .

We can maybe influence it a little but there is nothing we can do to stop it happening .

Blair makes me cringe , he speaks as if him and his cronies can solve the problem by raising taxes on carbon emmisions , to what end ?

If we took GB out of the equation tommorrow what effect would that have on GW?  Sod all,  we are a very tiny cog in a massive machine.