Type 9 Gearbox

[RobK]

First up, appologies for the total newbie question that is about to follow:

I bought a westfeild second hand a couple of weeks ago, a 1991 westfield SE with 8000 miles on the clock. Since it had no MOT, I did a couple of bits to the car and took it for its MOT last week, it passed! Anyway, last sunday, I waited patiently all day for the roads to dry up a bit, and at about 2pm finally took the westfield out for my first proper drive in it. Unfortunately I  got about 2 miles down the road and the gearbox decided it had had enough and gave up!  

I have set about removing the gearbox, the engine and other assorted bits and bobs are already out. On removing the engine the gearbox became free to move upwards, but not down. Underneath i found a plate holding the gearbox by 2 bolts, so i have undone this to free the box up some more. Whet else do I have to do to remove the box? Do i have to take the gearstick off or can i make it drop through the hole? The stick is fixed stright on to the box, it does not have the Westfield linkage extender to move the stick back from under the dash. Also do I have to unbolt the propshaft at the back where it joins the diff or does it slide out of the gearbox on a splined shaft?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. The car is a Westfeild SE narrowbody, with 2ltr Pinto engine and Type 9 gearbox.

[Phil. S]

I think you have to take the gear tick off, but even if you don't have to, I would. It's only three bolts. The prop just slides out. If you have the reversing lights wired up, disconnect them from the gearbox, as well as the speedo cable. Also tie wrap a rubber gove over the rear end, otherwise you'll have smelly oil everywhere when the box tints backwards.

[RobK]

Thanks for the advice!

I will take the gearstick and speedo cable off tonight and side the gearbox forward to get it out.

Is there a part on the Type 9 that typically fails first? Im guessing this failure is a result of putting too much power through the box? Is a Type 9 box ok to cope with 189Bhp?

Thanks again

[Astraoid]

A type 9 will be getting close to it's limit at that sort of power - 200Bhp is what I was advised as being the maximum on a standard type 9.

[Martin Keene]

Is there a part on the Type 9 that typically fails first? Im guessing this failure is a result of putting too much power through the box? Is a Type 9 box ok to cope with 189Bhp?

What's happened to it?

The most common failure of the type 9 is to lose gears 1, 2, 3, 4 and reverse and only be left with 5th. Sounds serious, but it is a sheared pin in the selector which costs 50p...

Power is not a killer of gearboxes. It is torque and revs that kill them. How much torque do you have and what do you rev to?

[RobK]

I cant remember the torque figure off the top of my head, I will post it later when I get home from work  

Basically what happened was the gearbox made a couple of sharp bang noises, and then a louder bang and a constant screaming noise after that. The noise went softer and quiter as i rolled to a stop. The screaming noise was worst on the tow back home with the clutch not depressed and the gearbox in neutral. Depressing the clutch made the noise quieter, but it was still there.

Not sure if that helps?

[Martin Keene]

Well, somethings obviously terminally broken and TBH it could be almost anything...

There, that was helpful, wasn't it!

[stampy]

I was doing a rude boy gear change in my car off the lights and lost gears, well the gear stick wouldnt move at all,i took the gear stick off and found it was the clip on the selector that had brocken hope this helps

[RobK]

Thanks again for the advice! I removed the gearstick and speedo cable, and the gearbox slid out with no problems.  

I am getting a replacement box tomorrow, and for this ill need to transfer the bell housing, thrust bearing and the clutch bar that moves the thrust bearing (whatever its proper name is?!) to the new box. However I am now having problems removing the thrust bearing and its carrier from the old gearbox. Should it just pull straight off or is there a trick to it? Haynes manual seems no help at all on this bit! Also, should there be much play in the thrust bearing? there seems quite a lot to me, but im just guessing here.

RE, the posts above,  I had a look at a RR plot for the car, max torque is about 160lbft at about 5500 rpm, the engine revs to 6500 rpm.

[Bryan C]

QUOTE

However I am now having problems removing the thrust bearing and its carrier from the old gearbox

Yes I'd like a bit more guidance on this - they say a picture ( or drawing ) is worth a thousand words.

I've never been able to visualise the descriptions on how to remove the thrust bearing but in my case with a clutch change, I put the the gearbox with old bearing back! A lucky WSCC member had my new bearing on request. I suspect next time will be different as I have a slight oil leak suggesting I will one day need to replace the front oil seal.

One tip I would suggest is to stick a wine bottle screw cap filled with blue tack over the two exposed electrical pins which connects the reversing light. You cant be in 2 places at once and its easy to smash the switch against a chassis rail in the trans-tunnel when you are looking elsewhere.

Regards

Bryan C

[pete g]

Thanks again for the advice! I removed the gearstick and speedo cable, and the gearbox slid out with no problems.  

I am getting a replacement box tomorrow, and for this ill need to transfer the bell housing, thrust bearing and the clutch bar that moves the thrust bearing (whatever its proper name is?!) to the new box. However I am now having problems removing the thrust bearing and its carrier from the old gearbox. Should it just pull straight off or is there a trick to it? Haynes manual seems no help at all on this bit! Also, should there be much play in the thrust bearing? there seems quite a lot to me, but im just guessing here.

RE, the posts above,  I had a look at a RR plot for the car, max torque is about 160lbft at about 5500 rpm, the engine revs to 6500 rpm.

thrust bearing is just a push fit .should pull out[two small metal clips either side]

where is the wear/play

normally as long as it spins ok it should be ok.

but well worth changing for new one while its out.

about £19 from fords maybe cheaper for local shop.

[RobK]

Many thanks for the help with this.

We bought a 2nd Hand gearbox for £75.00 and it came with the bellhousing and pivoting plate already fitted. So we just fitted a new thrust bearing (less than £9.00 from Andrew Page). Found the 2 small clips on the new bearing before fitting it so we will remove the the old thrust bearing when we strip the gearbox down.

Turns out there was no oil in it, the bearing on the input shaft has collapsed (we think!). What other parts will be damaged with running with no oil? Is the old box worth a rebuild with new bearings?

Rebuilding the car over the weekend, so hoping to be back on the road by Sunday dinner time. See how long it lasts this time  

Thanks again for the help, be prepared for more newbie questions!!!

PS.... Are we ok running a turbo'd pinto engine on fully synthetic oil? I know some older engines don't like it?

[stu999]

What other parts will be damaged with running with no oil?

Probably everything - to a greater or lesser extent...

Is the old box worth a rebuild with new bearings?

IMHO, no. Take it apart to see how it works - then throw it away...