Xflow fails to start

[SteveF]

OK - this is going to make me sound completely stupid (not hard really ) but I replaced my HT leads and now I can't get the engine to fire      

It all started with taking the car for a test run prior to a track day I'd booked on easter sdaturday. After a short while it started to stutter a bit on pick up, so pulled over to check everything was in it's place, plug leads on (ok), HT leads on distributor - felt one loose, and it came off in my hand - not the whole connection - as the lead had broken   . I limped back home on 3 cylinders and merrily pulled all the plug ends and ditributor ends of the leads off - thinking I'll just go and replace the whole lot. At the same time I noticed that the dizzy was also a bit loose, and that I had probably rotated it a bit while I was taking the leads off  

So after getting the new leads I've put it back together how I thought it had been - by this I mean which HT lead on which connection - tried to fire it up and hey presto - nothing, b******* all, not a thing  

So here we are a couple of frustrated weeks down the line (and one missed track day in the sunshine), and I have:

1) re-setup the luminition ignition as per the basic static timing instructions - i.e. 12v on -ve side of coil just as No.1 is at TDC by twisting the dizzy clockwise

2) checked that the rotor arm is just pointing to No.1 terminal in the dizzy when this happens (pointing at about 11 oclock when looked at from square on to the block)

All I get when I try to start is a backfire out of both the front and rear air filters on the webers (not taken the covers off them - so don't know which cylinders backfired)

Any clues what's going on? - hopefully it's just me doing something really stupid which can be easily sorted - either by good advice, or someone pushing me out of the way and showing me how stupid I've been by sorting it in 5 mins.

Cheers

Steve

[blitz]

The backfire makes it likely that you have the leads on in the wrong firing order,very easy to do if you pull them all off at once. Remember the rotor arm (if it's a dizzy) rotates ANTI clockwise.

[Neil Purdie]

Xflow firing order is    1-2-4-3.

Most modern engines    1-3-4-2.

I made the mistake of assuming the order would be standard and it was like you described  

[westfield_bumble]

can scan me manual and send a copy if you require. Will be going up garage later the day so just pm me your email address if u want a copy.

Scott

[Neil Purdie]

2) checked that the rotor arm is just pointing to No.1 terminal in the dizzy when this happens (pointing at about 11 oclock when looked at from square on to the block)

I wouldnt put my life on it but I think that your starting from No.4 cylinder.  I think that No.1 is about 5 oclock position.

[SteveF]

Scott - which manual have you got? - I've already got a haynes mk2 escort manual & luminition fitting instructions - Thanks

Neil - thanks - but does it really matter so long as No.1 cylinder is at TDC, and the rotor arm is just about to reach the No.1 contact, and the sequence going anticlockwise is correct? - but that said - could I be a cycle out - as the dizzy does half a rotation to each rotation of the crank - so there will also be another TDC point for No.1 with the rotor arm at 5 oclock - but the haynes manual says the rotor arm should be pointing towards the block

[westfield_bumble]

Snap. I remember reading somewhere that its quite possible to put it in 180deg out. If its any help i'll take some pics of mine at tdc with the cap off as i have it out of car and the inlet manifold off

Mines just on points

Scott

[Neil Purdie]

Ok my thought about being 180 degrees out was wrong.

Just been out and looked.  With No.1 at TDC and inlet and exhausts closed. dizzy lookes like.

[Hammy]

What you have looks about right -pointing to no one with both valves closed on one at around TDC

check that :

1. The points are *just* opening around 10 deg BTDC

2. The rotor arm is pointing at the number one plug position and not into a space between the cap terminals (!

3. The rotor arm goes around the way you think it does ( clockwise/anti)...

4 .The put the plug leads in in the correct firing order

try it...

If it doesn't go check you have a spark by putting a plug and lead directly into the coil and manually open the points with a screw driver, (igniton on)- the fact it pops occassionally suggests you have a spark.

Still no go ?

Dizzy cap cracked/damaged/ arcing to somewhere from the coil or leads ?

Plug gaps ok ?

No spark ?

If you've changed the points check you haven't inadeveratntly left out and washers/plastic parts that may cause the wire  connections to short to the body

if thats ok is there power to the other side of the coil ? Is the other side of the coil connected to the dizzy ?

You are then into capacitor/coil faults.

good luck !

[SteveF]

Well - I've made some progress, in that the engine now runs - but very rough.

I found that the distributor IS out by 180 degrees, so when No.1 is ready to fire, the rotor arm points down at 5 oclock (in the opposite direction to Neil's), and I also set it to fire at 10 degrees BTDC

The engine appears to be running on just No1 and No4 though as pulling No3 lead off does nothing, and pulling No2 off actually improves the running - removing the large amount of popping and banging from the exhaust.

I tried reversing No2 & No3 to see if I'd put them on the wrong way round - but this didn't sort the problem.

Any more ideas?

[Thrustyjust]

It doesn't matter which lead goes where on the cap,as long as the lead  and rotor arm is corresponding to the cylinder on compression and fire stroke.The firing order for the crossflow is 1-3-4-2 as per nearly all 4 cylinder engines.Set the leads up to correspond to which cylinder is firing and then put them in anti-clockwise from there.Then mark the distributor and clamp plate with a marker pen and then loosen the clamp.When it is running,give it a slight move one way and then the other.See if it runs any better.If you have a timing gun with the timing marks still on the front pulley,try and set it from there.I 'think' it should be about 8 deg BTDC at 1000 rpm

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

The firing order for the crossflow is 1-3-4-2 as per nearly all 4 cylinder engines

So which is correct?

[Neil Purdie]

The firing order for the crossflow is 1-3-4-2 as per nearly all 4 cylinder engines

So which is correct?

Definately 1-2-4-3

The x-flow isnt normal by todays standard   Probably never was  

[blankczechbook]

...but it explains why thrusties engine was always a bit rough

just looked at a haynes and yes 1-2-4-3

if in doubt - just a cup of tea - or bottle of gambrinus and look again - or start again.

my luminition plays up when the dizzy connector pins move inside the connector - make sure the connections are fine too... but as you say it is running now - and was before - this does suggest the timing & ht leads from your description of the whole process.

good luck

[Guest]

I know it might sound daft, but you aren't by any chance putting the distributor cap on 180 degs out.  If I recall my old Xflow, I think this is possible but it does not sit flat on the dissy.  This would therefore lead to your rough running:

Just I thought but I am probably talking cr p