BEN99W Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Bah - I picked up a set of the throttle bodies in the madness bulk buy at christmas and only recenlty found the time to try to fit them. My car has top mounted pedals, and the zetec lump is pushed back against the bulk head. I expected there to be an issue to overcome with regards to the brake master cylinder and had a few solutions in mind to solve it. However once trying to bolt 'em on the clash was unresolvable. My only choice is to go to floor mounted pedals but this is going to be £3-400 to sort and that is the bale of straw that breaks this particular camel's back. I can't decide wheather or not to try to flog the TBs and management system or just hang onto it all til I maybe find the cash and can sort a floor mounted solution. The thing is I want to be out driving not weilding spanners... Ah well - Im not expecting a solution, just wanted to share my frustration - TBs are wonderful things, I always wanted a set but coffee table decoration isn't what I had in mind Ben Quote
Blatman Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 There's a floor mounted pedal offer in this months Westfield World... Quote
KerryS Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Ben - that's a bu**er! I never thought about the top mounted pedals issue when I ran the BB so I feel sort of responsible. There's a local WSCC member who I discussed this with - he's got a 9-year old car with top-mounted pedals - and I can see it's not on. TBH I was aiming the BB at "Madness" kit owners with floor mount pedals. Were you the one who had to buy the MBE UCU as well? You could just fit the front one and saw the last one off and have TBs on three cylinders Sadly, I think you may have to cut your losses and sell them or take up the WW offer. Kerry Quote
BEN99W Posted April 25, 2006 Author Posted April 25, 2006 Yeah I've seen the floor mounted pedals and appreciate that its going to cost me even more to buy em after this deal expires, but I just don't have the money now They would have been the ideal solution. I'm currently flogging all I can get onto ebay at the moment so maybe I'll find the money Kerry - It was me who had to buy the ECU too. But you've no need to feel responsible. I knew full well that i'd have an issue to resolve but the price you got together was too good to pass up. I thought sod it I'll buy them and make them fit one way or the other I was pretty sure making the brake reservoir remote would give sufficient clearance but by the smallest of margins it just doesnt... As for cutting my losses, the engine already has uprated cams and a big valve, gas flowed head which gives me scarcely any more poke because it needs the extra air and fuel the TBs were supposed to provide. The WW floor mounted pedals are the obvious solution, but I'll have to shift a kidney to get em at the mo. Actually I know a place where you can get money for doing medical testing... Quote
peterg Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Can't you move the engine forward a little? it doesn't 'have' to be against the bulkhead and an inch or so forward will make little difference to the weight balance Quote
jeff oakley Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Get yourself to Stonleigh and have a look at the Locost boys. You will find a floor mounted pedal set up for much less than you think. The Caged one is fantastic quality, but the locost one's will work, and should enable you to use the exsisting mastercylinder. Quote
jeff oakley Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Just found one on ebay item number 4634433891 worth a look. Jeff Quote
alan dixon Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Just found one on ebay item number 4634433891 worth a look. Jeff Clicky Quote
Ian Podmore Posted April 26, 2006 Posted April 26, 2006 Ben The other options available to us is to stay top mounted but either go to the 2 x single master cylinders as per the photos I sent you of that Cossie engined car, or have the top mount pedal box modified to have the tandem master cylinder facing the rear of the car instead. But I think you knew all that anyway. Best of luck. If all that fails I'de recommend getting a chip like I have got to give you the full 7,000rpm rather than strangle the engine at 6,200 as it does keep pulling well certainly up to 6,500rpm. Cost was £190 and you fit it yourself (it just plugs in! Have you changed to a cone filter as well instead of the standard airbox etc? Ian Quote
Ian Podmore Posted April 26, 2006 Posted April 26, 2006 You could just fit the front one and saw the last one off and have TBs on three cylinders Forget my ideas, Kerry's is much better Quote
BEN99W Posted April 26, 2006 Author Posted April 26, 2006 Hi Ian Once I'd got the TBs on, albeit without the trumpets, I have to say it looked like the twin master cylinders would still foul, or else be VERY close as the fliter sticks afair way back. I was certainly in no mood to carry out that mod only to find it didn't fit in the end. Admitedly I didn't take absolute measurments though... How would could the tandem master cylinder be made to work pointing backwards? Surely it would need a totally re-engineered brake pedal and pivot point? Cheers for the pointers. I have toyed with the idea of just the chip, but I find that on hot days having the air filter at the back sucks in such hot air that it runs like a pig. Quote
Ian Podmore Posted April 27, 2006 Posted April 27, 2006 Hi Ian Once I'd got the TBs on, albeit without the trumpets, I have to say it looked like the twin master cylinders would still foul, or else be VERY close as the fliter sticks afair way back. I was certainly in no mood to carry out that mod only to find it didn't fit in the end. Admitedly I didn't take absolute measurments though... How would could the tandem master cylinder be made to work pointing backwards? Surely it would need a totally re-engineered brake pedal and pivot point? Cheers for the pointers. I have toyed with the idea of just the chip, but I find that on hot days having the air filter at the back sucks in such hot air that it runs like a pig. Have the master cylinder at the back would need the pivot point moving, but it wouldn't be such a major job. With regard to the temperature of air at the back of the engine, I presume that you have the offset 'V8' style bonnet with the air inlet open at the front? If so, I did some temperature measurements around the engine bay, having brought some appropriate hose to allow me to relocate the air filter in a cooler position..... And found that the coolest air was at the back of the engine where my filter already was It was only a couple of degrees above ambient. That is with no air box, just a cone filter mind you, so I presume that the air is coming in and circulating round the back of the engine. So I've still got the hose in the garage unused! The temperature around the inlet manifold where a lot of people without bonnet cut outs with carbs/TB's take their inlet air from was approx 15 degrees above ambient even with the additional venting provided by the offset 'V8' bonnet that we have got, goodness knows what it is without that! Perhaps I'll do some tests one club night. Quote
Blatman Posted April 27, 2006 Posted April 27, 2006 Have the master cylinder at the back would need the pivot point moving, but it wouldn't be such a major job. Caterham and Berkin pedal boxes have "reversed" master cylinders. The pedals on those cars have the clevis attachment above the pedal pivot. And yes Caterham pedals will bolt straight in to a Westfield pedal box. I use a Caterham clutch pedal in my race car The only real issue it's it a little short, but that's only a problem if you have small feet. I have toyed with the idea of extending it by butchering the original Westfield pedal and welding on to the Caterham pedal to improve the length. Then I'd have to look at the pedal ratio, but that's not difficult either... Quote
BEN99W Posted April 27, 2006 Author Posted April 27, 2006 Cheers guys - that's some useful food for thought. Quote
John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison Posted April 27, 2006 Posted April 27, 2006 Would they fit if the resevoir wasnt there? Perhaps a remote resevoir would help? Dont laugh, but some Lada master cylinders are very similar to Escort ones and have remote resevoirs as standard. John Quote
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