Traction control on tin-tops

[John C]

Can anyone offer advice on whether the traction control on modern cars helps them go up steepish (1 in 10) roads in snow/icy conditions ?  A 4 x 4 would do it but for 360 days of the year would be ott for our needs.  Our 2-wheel drive tin-tops (without traction control but with snow/winter tyres) struggle a few days each year on an ungritted hill.

[zoso]

Yes they should, but I imagine it depends how steep and how slippy the roads are.  Saw something on fifth gear with tiff driving a front wheel drive jag up a steep icy bit.  Worked with TC but not without.

Why not get a grit bin?

[Mark Stanton]

Stuff that Tiff was using on Jag was ESP rather than a simpler TC  

[John C]

Zoso

It was the 5th gear programme that stimulated the question - it looked good but does it work for normal mortals?

There is a grit bin but it usually empty - selfish toe-rags use it to grit their own drives not the public road

[pistonbroke]

You gotta be careful with engine type, some high revvers wont produce enough torque at low rpm's  for hill starts on slippy surface's , too much wheelspin at low rpm is not what you want imo .

Years back I used to put my Anglia van in  gear with the engine ticking over and walk alongside while  "pushing " to help get it going , once it got moving I could jump in and drive off.

 

[zoso]

Stuff that Tiff was using on Jag was ESP rather than a simpler TC  

The esp was for dodging the moose's...  

It was the traction control that controlled the traction...

I think...

All the stuff we've ever had has been very impressive.  Dad's RX8's control systems (EBD Esp and Tc or the equivelent) are nothing short of newton's law infringing...

The volvo we had before that was very very composed on the slippy stuff, but I didn't try steep and slippy...

[Mark Stanton]

EBD Esp and Tc or the equivelent

TC is not the equivalent     it merely adjusts spin rate of the driving wheels  

ESP and the like, not only monitors power to wheels but also an overall balance with the application of brakes in milliseconds and how the car is reacting and compensates accordingly       much more advanced than traction control        

A quick Google for a simplified explanation =

ESP, the braking action on each individual wheel is controlled, (as if you had four feet to apply four brake pedals). Secondly, the engine output is automatically adjusted. All you are aware of is that your car continues to drive around the bend.

In physical terms, skidding is simply a rotation of the vehicle about its vertical axis. The faster this rotation, the greater the skidding movement and the greater the risk of an accident. In order to measure this movement, a yaw rate sensor or gyro is required. The complete system is known by a number of different terms according to the manufacturer who is offering it. Some of the most common are Electronic Stability Program (ESP) and Dynamic Stability Control (DSC).

So, what is the difference between ESP and ABS or Traction Control? ABS and Traction Control work only in the axis along the length of the vehicle to prevent wheel lock up and assist straight line braking. ESP assesses the behaviour of the vehicle and the driver during cornering, correcting the vehicle motion to match the driver’s input.

[KerryS]

4WD or AWD is fine for traction but it doesn't help with braking. Hence I could reverse out of my drive this morning onto a 1 in 8,AWD doing its stuff, but brakes wouldn't hold it! So car back on the drive and got the bus to work.

Kerry

[oldman]

Years back I used to put my Anglia van in  gear with the engine ticking over and walk alongside while  "pushing " to help get it going , once it got moving I could jump in and drive off.

The Pusher...who sang that(Stepps might know)  

[Guest]

i have tc on my tin top and in slippy conditions it cuts the power , kinda think of it as reverse ABS and you kinda get the effect , abs + snow = work of the devil , tc+ snow basically ditto , far better to turn it off and pull away gently in second (well it is a dismal) as for braking /abs in the snow , just make sure you have winter tyres ...when we were in germany you would not think about NOT having proper winter tyres on (infact not doing so invalidates alot of insurances over there) you need grip not electronics which is why 4wd is popular on cars where it gets slippy ....... remember the uk is one of the only countries not to get X model BMW's and more ( ok we have the X3 and X5) but in europe and the US you can buy the 325x and the 525x etc etc , never seen a 4wd 7 series though.

[Major Stare]

4WD or AWD is fine for traction but it doesn't help with braking. Hence I could reverse out of my drive this morning onto a 1 in 8,AWD doing its stuff, but brakes wouldn't hold it! So car back on the drive and got the bus to work.

Kerry

PMSL    

Thats one expensive Volvo Kerry  

[Mike H]

Zoso

It was the 5th gear programme that stimulated the question - it looked good but does it work for normal mortals?

There is a grit bin but it usually empty - selfish toe-rags use it to grit their own drives not the public road

I always spill a bit on the road when I raid the local grit bin      

Your local council are obliged to keep them filled BTW.

Mike

[Stuart]

On the light dusting we had in Warwickshire a couple of weeks before Xmas I couldn't get up Welford hill with TC on - it was so slippery it basically took the engine power down to nothing.  Turned it off and still couldn't get going - until a 4WD overtook me and I managed to wriggle across into its tyre tracks.  Kind of answers the question, I think.

Oldman - you gave it away.  God damn the pusher man was by Steppenwolf.

[zoso]

EBD Esp and Tc or the equivelent

TC is not the equivalent     it merely adjusts spin rate of the driving wheels  

Mark,

Sorry I wasn't to clear, when I said "EBD ESP and TC or the equivelent" I meant the RX8 has those 3 systems but thats may not be what they are called...

Undoubtebly ESP is far more advanced than TC, but when tiff was driving up that hill he was only traveling along the one axis so the ESP wouldn't help him...  (from a purely academic point of view.  It's likely that the traction controll was coming from the ESP system but it was only acting as traction controll)...

Although it all gets a bit hazy as i'm sure the EBD ESP and TC are all controlled by one black box so why there has to be three names can only be down to marketing!!  I may be wrong but I seem to remember seing cars with all three systems (in name anyway).

EBD (electronic brake distribution) is what ESP is to TC for ABS...  Just to clear that up for any innocent

bystanders

Anyway back to the original gist I think Mark was getting at, ESP is the mutts nuts if driving in slippy conditions is what you have to do, it will stop you hedging it.

[Westfields Rock On]

I saw a traction controlled merc sports car last winter. auto box just sat spinning the wheels. I could make my GT6 go forward without any of this crap. Twas amusing watching a 30-odd thousand pound car stranded on 1inch of ice and snow.

Our impreza seems to be fairing rather well in this whether without traction control. keep seeing FWD slipping all over the show.