Big Brother...

[KerryS]

ANPR is the bees knees as long as it stays used how its intended.

Which is why, I presume there is an increase in number plate theft by those who are not so innocent.

Kerry

[jonlewis]

ANPR is the bees knees as long as it stays used how its intended.

Anything that gets uninsured untaxed and unmoted motorists off the roads is a good thing.

You also saw its use in the case of Pc Sharon Beshenivsky, the car used was traced back very quickly, and now there's two suspects awaiting trial.

I agree...

ANPR is stictly targeted to provide a valuable service.

Could the system be used to activly "manage" everyone... theoretically yes, but the manpower and computer power required would be huge... way beyond the budgetary capabilities of the Police Forces.

For all of the doomsayers... do you realise the Police do not have direct access to public CCTV. An independant person needs to invite the Police to look at a specific CCTV event (except under anti-terrorism laws). Local Authorities have full control of CCTV cameras throughout the country.

Additionally, the level of controls on who can see images, and the authenticity of images is huge. It is incumbent upon the police in court to prove that an image is not modified, even if nobody is suggesting that it is.

This whole debate is something I am not going to worry about for a long, long time. Budgetary and Judiciary restrictions will not allow active monitoring to happen for a long time. Do I care that my registration number is being held on a database somewhere, just in case someone feels the need to search for it.... not a bit. Like Blatters, I am a law abiding citizen, and the only reason the police may check up on my Registration, is if my car was seen at or near the scene of a crime of a serious magnitude. If it was, I would be more than happy to provide them with any info I could.... maybe I had seen a getaway vehicle, or a crime being commited.

As for selling the info to anyone, that is simply not going to happen. The Freedom of Information Act, and the pre-implementation of Sarbarnes Oxley (Even though the UK version is not law yet), mean that data compliance is much more strict than people realise.

[jonlewis]

The number plate theft issue is a problem, that Police Forces are trying to tackle.... longer term, it will mean smart technology is required to validate through the use of RFID. Although this sounds even more Big Brotherish, the data collected would not be used any differently, just would enable cross checking of the ANPR to RFID data to identify incorrrectly registered cars. Potentially another bunch of scumbags would then be caught. This however is ages away as the technology is much too expensive to implement.

For now, all that is in place is the automated cross checking of vehicle type and colour. So as long as a thief is smart enough to nick a number plate off another car which is more or less identical, then he will get away with it........ but he also would need to check it's taxed and insured as well

Nobody has convinced me yet that this all a terrible thing.

[Martin Keene]

For all of the doomsayers... do you realise the Police do not have direct access to public CCTV. An independant person needs to invite the Police to look at a specific CCTV event (except under anti-terrorism laws). Local Authorities have full control of CCTV cameras throughout the country.

Additionally, the level of controls on who can see images, and the authenticity of images is huge. It is incumbent upon the police in court to prove that an image is not modified, even if nobody is suggesting that it is.

This whole debate is something I am not going to worry about for a long, long time. Budgetary and Judiciary restrictions will not allow active monitoring to happen for a long time. Do I care that my registration number is being held on a database somewhere, just in case someone feels the need to search for it.... not a bit. Like Blatters, I am a law abiding citizen, and the only reason the police may check up on my Registration, is if my car was seen at or near the scene of a crime of a serious magnitude. If it was, I would be more than happy to provide them with any info I could.... maybe I had seen a getaway vehicle, or a crime being commited.

As for selling the info to anyone, that is simply not going to happen. The Freedom of Information Act, and the pre-implementation of Sarbarnes Oxley (Even though the UK version is not law yet), mean that data compliance is much more strict than people realise.

I'm with you Jon, I suspect there is a large amount of spin in the original press statement and they are going to start by storing the information for a particcular route that is already fully camera'd, such as the M25, and go from there.

Like you I'm not going to worry about this, because I just can't see it happening...

[steve_m]

I agree too than ANPR is a good idea and catching uninsured motorists/criminals is always a good thing but like most things, it won't end here.

DVLA can sell registration plate info to anybody because they own the registration number, not you and me, so if there's a set of cameras recording which plate goes past at what time, they can legitimately sell that info to, for example, insurance companies - they are only selling something they own.  The insurance companies can match the registrations with owners and then have a full picture of who, what, where, when etc, all legal under the current laws.  In fact Insurance companies share information now between themselves, DVLA and the Police.

Sarbanes Oxley is really just an auditing process, so as long as you can trace who has had access to it (not who has actually accessed a particular piece of data) and who has made changes, you're covered.

What woeries me most is the Govt using the threat of terrorism to push through all sorts of changes . . . the Police even detained a Labour supporter at their own conference under the terrorism act . . . you can't get into the Labour conference unless they know who you are so this is even more alarming.

I think there's a lot more to come in this vein, it will cost a lot but like the London congestion charging system, it'll be subbed out to somebody who knows what they're doing so it will work they will sell the info and/or fine people to pay for it and we'll all be under the microscope.

[Blatman]

The insurance companies can match the registrations with owners and then have a full picture of who, what, where, when etc, all legal under the current laws.  In fact Insurance companies share information now between themselves, DVLA and the Police.

Again, so what? The insurance companies, Police and DVLA already have all of my registration details. Having a picture of my reg plate in London at 09.00, then Manchester at 15.00 and back in London at 19.00 means what? That they've spent the day watching me picking up my new wheels. Big beal...

Much like ID cards (which IMHO are un-necessary) law abiding citizens have nothing to fear. It won't impinge one bit on my civil liberties. I tax and insure my cars, I pay my taxes and I'm not involved in organised crime or terrorism. BUT, when it does appear to be a form of control for the law abiding other than making me think twice about being a naughty boy , I'll review my opinion. At the moment, it's definitely a resounding "so what"...

[jonlewis]

The DVLA do not own the images, so they cannot sell them. The controls in place simply would not allow them to happen.

SO is an auditing process, but in reference to ANPR is a good way of ensuring authenticity.

It may be possible to record all of the info, but would be almost impossible to activly manage everyone....

[steve_m]

Who does own them then ?

[jonlewis]

The images are owned by the local Police Force (ANPR)... or the local authority (CCTV) depending on which system. They cannot just hand them over except by court order.

[steve_m]

OK, that's ANPR not the system Boomy was talking about, the national system will be completely different and that is where I believe the problem will be.

ANPR, a van on a stretch of road with a few police bikes probably isn't anything to worry abvout as it's likey to be used for exactly what they say it is.

[jonlewis]

The technology and laws regulating it would be the same.... no country can afford to have four different cameras for four different applications on every street corner.

And anyway, if they were not using the existing infrastructure, how are they going to implement it next year. It takes years for the local authority to put up a new street light, never mind a country wide surveilance system

[steve_m]

I would not underestimate the Govt, if you combine the income from a national road pricing scheme, national speeding fine scheme and the sale of the data, they would errect their own camera system, just like they did the London conjestion system.  It may be camera based or RFID based, both have been tested and are known to work.  GPS systems built into the ECU are 10-15 years off but even those would work now, it's all SatNav does - the location simply needs to be sent to a central data store until it's processed and you've already said that stores like this are available.

My personal view is that unless we oppose these changes we will get a lot more than we bargained for, I guess you'd like to see them introduced for some extra commission      but overall, I think the national scheme will be another attack on the motorist.