Suspension Bushes

[adamnreeves]

I should receive my nice nylon bushes today. I believe these are also easier to install than metalastic bushes in that you simply insert on either end and insert an inner sleeve. Do I need to grease for lubrication, I think any grease used is simply to make job easier as the bushes should not themselves require lubrication? I was just wondering about grease effecting the nylon in a chemical way?

On a slightly different topic, I have inserted the reducing sleeves into the rose joints. The manual said that this should be done with a vice, mine I could insert by hand, infact one of the sleeves keeps falling out as I have not bolted thru them yet.

[S8ight]

if youve got nylon you might find them a bit hard for normal road use, poly are a bit more forgiving.

grease them mainly to stop them creaking.

the sleeve in the rose joint should be a snug fit

[Mark B]

Adam,

When you fit the nylons make sure they aren't a mega tight fit, otherwise the sleeve will be too tight to run inside them, you will probably have to remove some of the powdercoat inside the tube first as you would when fitting most bushes.

I normally loctite them in (get the right loctite though) , and then smear the sleeves with either graphite grease or copper grease so they don't develop fretting corrosion or creak as Carl says, smear the bolts that pass through them aswell.

Nylons are fine for road use, you'd be hard pushed to notice any extra vibration/harshness between nylon and poly on a westfield imo.

Don't forget to leave a metalastic in on the outboard side of the lower rear wishbones for toe adjustment.

Cheers,

Mark.  

[Darren B]

Hi Adam,

Some of the sleeves in my rose joints do the falling out thing as well.

Darren

[Animal]

Adam,

When you fit the nylons make sure they aren't a mega tight fit, otherwise the sleeve will be too tight to run inside them, you will probably have to remove some of the powdercoat inside the tube first as you would when fitting most bushes.

I normally loctite them in (get the right loctite though) , and then smear the sleeves with either graphite grease or copper grease so they don't develop fretting corrosion or creak as Carl says, smear the bolts that pass through them aswell.

Nylons are fine for road use, you'd be hard pushed to notice any extra vibration/harshness between nylon and poly on a westfield imo.

Don't forget to leave a metalastic in on the outboard side of the lower rear wishbones for toe adjustment.

Cheers,

Mark.  

Hi,im about to do the same thing of fitting new bushes.

Idon't understand the last bit about toe adjustment.

Can you explain thanks.

Animal.

[adamnreeves]

Adam,

When you fit the nylons make sure they aren't a mega tight fit, otherwise the sleeve will be too tight to run inside them, you will probably have to remove some of the powdercoat inside the tube first as you would when fitting most bushes.

I normally loctite them in (get the right loctite though) , and then smear the sleeves with either graphite grease or copper grease so they don't develop fretting corrosion or creak as Carl says, smear the bolts that pass through them aswell.

Nylons are fine for road use, you'd be hard pushed to notice any extra vibration/harshness between nylon and poly on a westfield imo.

Don't forget to leave a metalastic in on the outboard side of the lower rear wishbones for toe adjustment.

Cheers,

Mark.  

Hi,im about to do the same thing of fitting new bushes.

Idon't understand the last bit about toe adjustment.

Can you explain thanks.

Animal.

The toe adjustment at the rear is achieved by screwing in or out the rose joint. Opposite to the rose joint is a the bush known as the outboard bush. Metastic bushes have more play than nylon or poly as they are rubber. So when adjusting toe in/out you actually want the exta play in the bush. All the other bushes do not require this so upgrading to nylon or poly means the suspension geometry is optimal.

[Blatman]

All the other bushes do not require this so upgrading to nylon or poly means the suspension geometry is optimal.

Rose joints all over would be optimal. Poly, nylon or metalastic bushes are all flexible to a greater or lesser degree, and may be affected by heat/cold etc...

[Animal]

Adam,

When you fit the nylons make sure they aren't a mega tight fit, otherwise the sleeve will be too tight to run inside them, you will probably have to remove some of the powdercoat inside the tube first as you would when fitting most bushes.

I normally loctite them in (get the right loctite though) , and then smear the sleeves with either graphite grease or copper grease so they don't develop fretting corrosion or creak as Carl says, smear the bolts that pass through them aswell.

Nylons are fine for road use, you'd be hard pushed to notice any extra vibration/harshness between nylon and poly on a westfield imo.

Don't forget to leave a metalastic in on the outboard side of the lower rear wishbones for toe adjustment.

Cheers,

Mark.  

Hi,im about to do the same thing of fitting new bushes.

Idon't understand the last bit about toe adjustment.

Can you explain thanks.

Animal.

The toe adjustment at the rear is achieved by screwing in or out the rose joint. Opposite to the rose joint is a the bush known as the outboard bush. Metastic bushes have more play than nylon or poly as they are rubber. So when adjusting toe in/out you actually want the exta play in the bush. All the other bushes do not require this so upgrading to nylon or poly means the suspension geometry is optimal.

Thank you for the reply.

My car is 10 years old and i am repainting the swinging arms

Thought it would be a good idea to overhaul the bushes.Would this improve the car or am i wasting my money.

Just a thought.

Cheers.

[Blatman]

If you are replacing all the bushes, including the bushes in the shocks, it's probably worth doing as the elasticity of the metalastics will probably change over time and with use...

[adamnreeves]

Adam,

When you fit the nylons make sure they aren't a mega tight fit, otherwise the sleeve will be too tight to run inside them, you will probably have to remove some of the powdercoat inside the tube first as you would when fitting most bushes.

I normally loctite them in (get the right loctite though) , and then smear the sleeves with either graphite grease or copper grease so they don't develop fretting corrosion or creak as Carl says, smear the bolts that pass through them aswell.

Nylons are fine for road use, you'd be hard pushed to notice any extra vibration/harshness between nylon and poly on a westfield imo.

Don't forget to leave a metalastic in on the outboard side of the lower rear wishbones for toe adjustment.

Cheers,

Mark.  

Hi,im about to do the same thing of fitting new bushes.

Idon't understand the last bit about toe adjustment.

Can you explain thanks.

Animal.

The toe adjustment at the rear is achieved by screwing in or out the rose joint. Opposite to the rose joint is a the bush known as the outboard bush. Metastic bushes have more play than nylon or poly as they are rubber. So when adjusting toe in/out you actually want the exta play in the bush. All the other bushes do not require this so upgrading to nylon or poly means the suspension geometry is optimal.

Thank you for the reply.

My car is 10 years old and i am repainting the swinging arms

Thought it would be a good idea to overhaul the bushes.Would this improve the car or am i wasting my money.

Just a thought.

Cheers.

If you taking the wishbones off the car then defintely would take the opportunity to replace the bushes anyway even if to the same type. Metalastic deteriate a lot quicker then nylon/poly but putting that to one side, from the outset nlyon/poly provide a much stiffer setup than metalastic and is noticable. Are you going to overhaul/replace the dampers and springs? If it is in within your budget do the lot.

[Animal]

I don't see the need to replace the shocks they have been replaced already.

AVO shocks but don't know what springs.Will change shock bushes to poly type.

Cheers.

[Blatman]

No-one said *replace* the shocks. We are talking about the bushes in the shock mounts. Late model AVO's usually have poly bushes anyway, but check. If they have metalastics, then see how much time, effort and money it will cost to have poly's fitted in the shocks too...

[adamnreeves]

Adam,

When you fit the nylons make sure they aren't a mega tight fit, otherwise the sleeve will be too tight to run inside them, you will probably have to remove some of the powdercoat inside the tube first as you would when fitting most bushes.

I normally loctite them in (get the right loctite though) , and then smear the sleeves with either graphite grease or copper grease so they don't develop fretting corrosion or creak as Carl says, smear the bolts that pass through them aswell.

Nylons are fine for road use, you'd be hard pushed to notice any extra vibration/harshness between nylon and poly on a westfield imo.

Don't forget to leave a metalastic in on the outboard side of the lower rear wishbones for toe adjustment.

Cheers,

Mark.  

Mark,

When you say mega tight.. If I can insert by hand then this is not mega tight! (I am strong! if I have to resort to a vice then does this constitute mega tight?  

Which loctite do I need, medium strength thread lock?

[Mark B]

Adam,

Basically they should be a push fit, ie they should require effort but should not drop in on their own or be a loose fit, normally a few small taps with a nylon mallet with a block of wood to prevent damage. You will probably be able to push them in so far by hand, as long as they don't spin once they're in that's ok.

Basically the bush should be about 0.05-0.2mm max bigger than the i.d of the wishbone tube so it's a semi interference fit.

When the sleeves are fitted, they should slide in & not be too tight otherwise they will bind, you should be able to turn them by gripping either end with your thumb and index finger, otherwise run some emery cloth through the inside of the bushes & on the outside of the sleeve to help it.

This should be about right by feel for both of us, I am known by certain members as "gorilla grip" so you're probably of similar strength by the sounds of it!

The loctite I used was designed for Acrylics, it's Loctite 638.

I did check with loctite first to see if it was suitable & that's what they recommended, it's not suitable for certain moulded plastics though so if you use it on anything else do a test first.

Cheers,

Mark.

[mud]

no mark , we all call you gorilla fingers and that is due to your knuckles dragging on the floor