catflap Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 I here allot regarding engine rebuilds, can some of you more knowledgeable people enlighten me on a few pints and add any comments you may think useful to me Considering a zetec or vx engine, possibly even a fire blade engine westy, i di plan to track it a few times a year, nothing serious just 3 or 4 times. How often do you rebuild the engine, and whets the average cost of such a rebuild. And why? i never hered of anyone rebuilding a scooby engine after a year or 2 of drivin including some serious track heads. Last thing I want to find is my nice budget sports car is going to cost me 2k a year in engine rebuilds Thanx catflap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 Generally, the higher the state of tune, the more fragile the engine. I have a pretty standard Vx, which I'm not expecting to rebiuld ever, unless I do something really stupid, or I want more power......... The key to engine longevity is to keep away from max revs (ie, if you rev it to the red line in 1st and 2nd all the time it'll break), and change the oil regularly. Most standard and modestly tuned engines should be able to manage several track days and 10,000 road miles every year without needing a rebuild too often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick M Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 Most standard and modestly tuned engines should be able to manage several track days and 10,000 road miles every year without needing a rebuild too often. Unless it's a Xflow !! And that's only because some of them have a tendency to eat piston rings. As for Zetecs, CVHs, VXs, etc., if the engines are pretty much standard then even 10,000 miles would be massively pessimistic before a rebuild is actually needed. The engines are under less load in a Westfield than when they were in a heavy tin-top and are often looked after better in terms of oil changes. Most engine rebuilds are a product of an old engine that needs rebuilding because it's worn, a tuned engine where something has gone wrong, or someone suffering from terminal upgraditis where they want to eke yet more power out of the engine. It's not something you should expect to have to do otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catflap Posted May 1, 2002 Author Share Posted May 1, 2002 I think your option of keeping things standard ish make alot of sense, but could somone explain the frequent rebuilds, I have freinds who own similar engind ars, mi16, 2.0 vx etc, yet these cars have been round the clock, although they only track them a few times a year. Im worried about the short life of these engins. What sort of costs are engin rebuilds, i would emagin upwards of a thousand pound? Thanx for the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick M Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 What frequent rebuilds though ?? Like I said, you don't rebuild 'em without good reason. If it's an old engine that's past its best then it would need rebuilding at some point anyway. If it's a tuned engine and something goes wrong, it'll need a rebuild. Otherwise it's fine and there would be no reason to touch it provided its vital signs like oil pressure were OK. If it's someone who likes tinkering and wants to get yet more power out of the engine then it'll involve a rebuild as part of the upgrade. If it's a standard or mildly tuned engined then it'll just go on, and on, and on without any problems provided it's well maintained. Seriously, it's not a major issue. An engine will only have a short life if you don't change the oil and cane it from cold every time and take it to the red line at every gear change. As a massive generalisation, revs kill engines regardless of how tuned they are. All that said, if you do end up in engine rebuild territory then the cost depends on what you can, or want to, do yourself and whether you intend to keep the engine pretty standard. The basic machining, e.g. rebore / hone and maybe a cylinder head skim isn't expensive (less than £200 for the two) and new (standard type) pistons aren't massively expensive. Set of bearings - £100. Gaskets and oil seals - depending on engine maybe another £100. Job done. BUT, when you start looking at upgrading it's a totally different story.... Set of steel rods and forged pistons - £1,000. Set of throttle bodies and ECU - £2,000. Pair of cams and followers - £500. Etc., etc., etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catflap Posted May 1, 2002 Author Share Posted May 1, 2002 The up grading does seem expensive, i supose its best to pic as good a westy as i can for the money i have, the prospect of upgrading may not be as accessable as first thought. Thnx Catflap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 Some more perspective/examples. I had to rebuild my Cossie engine last year, 'cos it needed the bores honing (I'd bore washed them with petrol. Long story........big D'OH). I do all the work myself, so there are no labour costs. Honing 4 bores £20 (and bear in mind this is what NEEDED doing. The rest could be called "incidental"), Cossie gasket set £74, main bearings £120, rings £120, 6 litres of oil £20, oil filter £6, sundries, say a tenner. So that's £360 'cos I was a dolt with a pressure regulator. All my own fault, and avoidable....... Same engine, this year an upgrade for more power. Porting the head £600 (includes valve guides) new cams £40 (I got a GOOD deal), new valve springs are unpriced as yet, gasket, oil, sundries, as before, a pair of second hand 48's £250. I'll need 2 hours on the rollers, plus some sundries (jets and the like) so say £75. So we're approaching 1100 quid (plus VAT) and there's bound to be some more........this is because I WANT more power. If I **** something up (I'm still doing most of the work myself), I'll be paying more "avoidable" costs. Am I happy/Is it worth it.....................OH YES, but I wish I hadn't actually added it up.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Westy Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 ...but really it's only £550 + VAT seeings you make Blatgirl go halfers :0 Mrs W PS Westy I hope you took note... The key to engine longevity is to keep away from max revs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Elworthy Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 I here allot regarding engine rebuilds, can some of you more knowledgeable people enlighten me on a few pints and add any comments you may think useful to me I can definitely enlighten you OF a few PINTS Cheers, mines a big one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 Good memory Mrs Westy...........Blatgirl does indeed go halfers. She drives it half the time, and therefore does half the damage. She also wins twice as many trophies as me, so I'm doing it all for her, really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catflap Posted May 2, 2002 Author Share Posted May 2, 2002 LOL at my ham fisted tying what you drinking sir? SO quid for quid, geitng power out of a 2ltr vx aint cheep, not compaird to the BE, been following the issues on the other thread, its an intersting one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 2, 2002 Share Posted May 2, 2002 No no no no no no You aren't paying attention at all........................ Please re-read what has been said, and write down and add up the costings, including the stuff from Nick M on Blatchat. The engine in my example is my normally aspirated (IE non turbo) Sierra COSWORTH. When it's done, it should have about 240ish bhp, and weigh around 575 kg's. It'll whip a 'blade, no worries, and the engine total cost will be around 3K, including buying it. How much would you have to spend on a 'Busa (including buying it) to reach 240 horses. A blade or 'bird will probably NEVER make 240 horses. At least, not without needing a re-build every 10-15 minutes............ I'm not expecting any mechanical failures on the Cossie, 'cos 240bhp won't be stressing the components that much. If I take care of it, there is no reason why it shouldn't last anything up to 50,000 miles or more. Bike engines often don't last that long in bikes............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catflap Posted May 3, 2002 Author Share Posted May 3, 2002 That makes a very interesting point, 240 gg`s from for 3k, Puts a new perspective on the bike front. Ok what about fitting it, say i get me a 1800 westy, and want to drop in a cozzy engine, how about all the hassle of getting a strong enough gearbox, and making all the fittings? The low cost of a blade engine (900 squids) including gear box s attractive. Just a though, with 10k to spend on a car soon, this is a viable option. Keep the info coming peeps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 3, 2002 Share Posted May 3, 2002 Why buy a car then swap the engine? 10K will get you a perfectly acceptable car with a powerful enough engine. The green car in the pic cost around 10K, it's a 185ish BHP Vx on throttle bodies. The gearbox will be good for more power as long as I'm not too brutal with it. Getting it up to 220-230bhp would cost less than £1000, assuming I did the work myself. 250bhp could be found for about £1500, and there would be little to touch it at the lights............. The Cossie car has a straight cut type 9 'box, and would be good for 250+bhp, with no worries. It cost £600 second hand, and had been recently (less than 1000 miles) reconditioned. There are lots of reasons why you wouldn't fit a Cossie in place of a Vx/CVH/X-Flow/Zetec, but mostly 'cos the inlet and exhausts are on the opposite side from the others. A tidy conversion would require a new body tub and bonnet, 'cos filling the holes left by the "other" engine would be almost impossible. Converting a Vx/CVH/X-Flow/Zetec to bike power has been done, but I beleive it cost in excess of 2K to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catflap Posted May 3, 2002 Author Share Posted May 3, 2002 Cheers blatman most helpfull Answer me this idiot style question Fast westys for 10k busa, blade i figure are good What cEC should i look out for? ny advice all apresheated, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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