Zetec or Duratec?

[sandhurst]

Just before going on holiday [got back today] I ordered a "factory built" Westfield Sport 1800. This comes with a 1.8L Ford Zetec with TBI and MBE management system coupled to a Ford MT75 gearbox.

I am mindful of forumites advice to "get what you want to start with" as upgrades can be costly and inconvenient. Also suggested is "get enough power from day one as you will always want more".

This prompts me to ask if I should change my order [i have 4 days in which to do so] and go for the Sport 2000 with a 2L Duratec with Webber Alpha ignition management system linked to a Mitchell Cotts gearbox.

I should say that the increased costs do not present a problem as my piggy bank is still in good health!

I do not intend to go on track days [probably too "mature" at 67 years] but will use the car for quick road work. Having said that, I would like good acceleration, smooth running at lower speeds and good reliability [for the £'s involved I would hope all three boxes would be ticked].

I have no knowledge of Mitchell Cotts gearboxes nor have I any experience of LSD'd [this Westfield model comes with a 4.00:1 LSD].

Hopefully all responses will point me in the same direction as my thinking time is limited.

Just remembered that I ask Westfield if the 1.8L was a Zetec E - the answer was "no it's the earlier model" [any implications there if I go for the Sport 1800 rather than the Sport 2000?].

I never had all these decisions to make when I bought a Ford Mexico and then a Fiesta XR2 years ago - both bought "as is" with colour being the only variation [Le Man Green and Black - how my wife loved the shade of green!].

Dave

   

[Blatman]

Mitchell Cotts are the manufacturers who make MT75's (and type 9's for that matter) now that Ford no longer make them. There is nothing special about them, and there shouldn't be a cost implication...

Go for the Duratec, but delete the Weber Alpha ECU and go with *anything* else. There is *NO* reason why you can't fit the MBE from the 1.8 to the Duratec, so stand your ground. DO NOT FIT THE WEBER ALPHA ECU.

Take the LSD if it's not massively over priced, BUT if you are going for an standard MT75, then you want the 3.62 ratio. a 4.1 will make first gear next to useless...

[Westfieldman]

Duratec

3.62 LSD diff

Elite gearbox this is worth the little/fair bit extra over what Westfields will charge you over the other gearbox well worth it.

[Blatman]

Not for a pure road car it ain't. I remember you asking me to drive your car in the paddock queue at Curborough 'cos getting neutral so that we could push the car was too much aggro

[peterg]

Yep, I'd agree that a sequential is OTT for road use (and it hasn't been without its problems) but otherwise I'd go with above

2ltr Duratec, 3.62 LSD (definitely IMHO) and put an MBE oe Emerald ECU in it

Oh, and good luck with the build I'm sure you'll love it    

[Ian Podmore]

The Zetec E is the earlier one....  And it is the one that it is most commonly upgraded so upgrade parts are readily available for it.

The 4.00 LSD is probably a Freelander diff so lighter than the 3.62 Sierra diff.

And I'd echo the comments about going for the Duratec, you won't ever crave any more power (yeah right!, that said a Speedsport 1800 won't be a slow car.  Both will be totally driveable from tickover to the limiter, with no hestitation etc. That's the beauty of an injected car.

And also echo the comments about the Alpha ECU, but it might not be so easy to get a different one with the Duratec.  Westfield will now have a much better map for the 2l Duratec as a new car fitted with Westfield induction and exhaust has been mapped by Webcon.

Enjoy

[Westfieldman]

I remember you asking me to drive your car in the paddock queue at Curborough 'cos getting neutral so that we could push the car was too much aggro

This is true but its the clutch and the loooong first gear I have more than the gearbox and getting neutral and I have got a lot better with the clutch control and getting neutral

The gearbox problems have not affected the factory ones just mine and this is sortted now

[Rob Navin]

The gearbox problems have not affected the factory ones just mine and this is sortted now

What was the resolution Paul.

Still looking and watching how you got on before my cash comes out.

PM me if you would prefer  

[greeny]

I'd second all of the above. Go for the Duratec, you won't regret it!

I had the webcon ecu when my engine was standard and it was ultra reliable, never missed a beat. Even when I upgraded to the 220 Raceline kit, they supplied me with a chip which you simply plug into the ecu and away you go. Unless you are wanting to plug your laptop in and play with the ecu yourself, I don't see a reason for avoiding the webcon unit.

The only reason I upgraded to the Emerald ecu was because I needed the capability of running 8 injectors on the new engine and wanted the option of using two maps on the fly.

I would go for the 3.62 diff if you can but the 3.92 is still ok for road use, first and second gear are a bit short with the latter.

The MT75 has a really nice shift action especially with the quick shift fitted so no need to change anything there.

Hope that helps!  

[conibear]

I can't see Westfield providing you with a Duratec kit without the Alpha ECU, they will be difficult to budge on that one, me thinks

[neilwillis]

Customer is always right - if you don't want the Weber Alpha ECU, and I'd agree with everyone else about going for Emerald or MBE cuz all rolling road tuners can work with them - unlike the Alphas which are only serviced by Weber agents - insist on your choice.

Duratec has to be the engine of choice, and the MT75 is a sound box too - I have the quick shift, and it's fine in combination with the 3.62 diff.   Get an LSD if you can too, it's a must with the 200 plus HP the Duratec will provide.

[Mark Stanton]

Ditto what Peter G, Blats and Mr Willis posted        

[Glen H]

I Know and partly agree with some of the comments regarding the WEBCON ECU set up, but as Greeny says if your not going to tunning the car yourself then it shouldn't make that much difference, once initially tuned it should be a fit and forget system, unless you get the bug and start doing track days etc and want to have a play with the ECU.

One thing that others who have posted 'Against' the Webcon unit may not know is that the latest system 'Apparrently' shoves out 204 or 205bhp which is VERY good for a standard engine and being a Duratec Owner myself I am not aware of any other manufacturer that gives this power from a 'Standard' engine'    

The only trouble with the Mitchell cotts gearbox is the limitation on optional gear ratio's and as it has standard ratios designed for a 'Heavy' mondeo and the likes - 1st gear would be pretty much useless especially with the 4: 01 diff (the 4: 01 would be the LSD version of the Freelander diff and is only available in this ratio, however 3.62 or 3.92 should be available with the Sierra type diff)

I took the gearbox out of the package and bought a BGH type 9 box with 'my' choice of ratios to suit trackday or sprinting use, however if its mainly for road use then the Mitchhell cotts would be o.k. but must be coupled with the right ratio of diff, 3.62 would be best to give better use of 1st gear and for 5th gear cruising but wouldn't give rapid acceleration in 5th however you probably wouldn't go above 4th gear on a track anyway with these ratios

Glen

[sandhurst]

THanks to all who have offered advice and opinion - I'll get there in the end!

Re the Duratec option, Westfield say that the Weber Alpha ignition management system they first used was improved by replacing the chip. However, they now fit a "gold" model which, apart from anything else, lifts the output to 205 bhp.

They are happy to change the diff to a 3.62 "subject to availability" [i forgot to ask but assume this will still be a LSD]

Dave

[adhawkins]

The main problem (as I understand it) with the Weber ECU is that it can only be fettled by authorised Weber dealers. The other ECUs are much more 'open' and most rolling roads will be able to tune if you decide you want to.

Would tend to agree that if you can afford it, definitely go for the Duratec. When you first get the car (whatever engine is in it) it'll seem quick compared to pretty much anything you're likely to have driven. However, you soon get used to it and end up wanting more

As to being too old for track days, you're wrong. There are plenty of 'mature' drivers in the Speed Series and on the track day circuit. Give an airfield day a try, I'm sure you'll love it.

Andy