geofff Posted August 5, 2005 Author Share Posted August 5, 2005 Yep but only if it does not "comply with the definition above" - which I must admit I'm having trouble understanding. I mean the "used in production saloon car" ain't going to be a problem as there are enough 'homologation specials' (rallying / BTCC) out there that use rose joints. Ta Geoff P.S. I'm off home so my next post probably won't be until Monday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 In the days of x/flows and class A there were full grids, perhaps because the engine was cheaper etc and you could do less to it as it was a simple engine (if oily! They were also slower...........still had full grids. Just some unbiased thoughts .....Gotta say as a spectator from very early days (first season) - when there were 2 Classes - the grids were much larger than when the current single class structure was initiated. The Championship points system meant Class A or B could win outright I know of quite a few drivers (can think of 5 straight off) that left the series at the change-over to one class I understand the need to move forward with safety and modern technology, perhaps replace the X-Flow with a Zetec and as a Westfield Sponsored Championship it should reflect what's currently in production to some extent With Westfield producing so many variants - BEC, V8's, Zetec, CVH, etc etc - why isn't there a slightly broader spectrum catered for - albeit restricted to 2 or at most 3 classes. Within the structure a "budget" class could be catered for. Many other championships have done this successfully over the years. Many many moons ago I looked into what was entailed in sponsoring a BARC championship series as a nominated series. At the time it required stumping up around £3000.00 with The BARC arranging venues, dates etc - Having a set of MSA ratified regulations and guaranteeing a minimum number of registrations - effectively if sufficient number of entrants could be gained the initial £3K was returned(ish) - Now obviously things will have changed and prices increased - but there isn't that much admin involved - far less than the Speed Series as the BARC undertake most of the work. It would be great if the Championship grew in same way as the 750 and others have done and find a suitable appeal to drivers and spectators - it can only benefit everyone concerned. Grids of less than 20 cars do not fully demonstrate the popularity and ability of the marque - the effort put in really deserves bigger and fuller grids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 but will any one be interested in a slow race series. If it's structured correctly, efficiently and promoted fully then yes Take a look at how the Locosts have snowballed over recent years ...................... certainly not the quickest, but its close racing good to watch and the drivers all seem to enjoy it with new drivers attracted every year which can only bode well for the future. There's an ex BARC Westfield driver (Steve Kelsey) competing in it for 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custardtart Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 Fast most definitely doesn't equal interesting - just look at f1!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsubaru Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 Hello all, Having literally just finishing the build of my car i find this post very disheartening. I am very new to the world of Westfield ownership and just as new into the world of Racing. When i placed the order with Westfield for my car (March-April time) the championship appeared to be thriving, 32 competitors as opposed to the 20 that have registered this year, oopps 21 including myself. What is the reason for this decline??? Is it normal for the championship to go through this kind of spell or is this year a one off. I am hoping it is the latter. I also agree with the sealed engine approach as i was led to beleive that everyone was on a levell playing field, this is obviously not the case. With regards to the availability of engines and carbs there still seems to be plentifull supplys of both components. Weber have just gone back into production (I know this after a 4 month wait ) and Westfield certainly don't seem to have any problems obtaining Zetec engines. I really hope this championship doesn't decline any further or force people who have invested quite heavily to compete into either Engine upgrades or out of the championship altogether. Hope to see you all at Rockingham Thanks John PS Simon is it ok if i give you a call as i have a few more questions to throw at you??? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.S.M Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 The described decline sounds to me like its the organisers of the championships fault. If they fail to police the championship with adequate eligibily scrutes its impossible to maintain this promised land of a level playing field - which in my experience is a pipe dream. Also, without continually assesssing the needs of drivers/updating regs and considering as pointed out availability of parts the champ was destined for a decline like this. Really hope to be proved wrong, since i feel the BARC westie champ is good PR for the factory/road cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon4007 Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Hi John, Pleased to hear that you'll be at Rockinham! Give me a call or send a PM anytime - happy to help! Cheers Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofff Posted August 16, 2005 Author Share Posted August 16, 2005 Hi John, I don't think you have anything to worry about. The series declined a little bit at the start of this year because of dirvers moving on - Jonathon Hawkins & Keith Scarfe to Britsports - for example. Also people tend to make the decision to go and do something else when you get a big change in the regs - such as happened this year with roll cages. If you been looking at other formulae or thinking about moving out of racing altogether then a bill of £1k+ for a single upgrade to the car at the start of the year is likely to push you into making a move. As for the series - it's still healthy - two new starters at least this year in you & me. And yes you have beaten me out if you make Rockingham. I filled in the form for Snetterton this morning Ta Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsubaru Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Hi Thanks for the replys, Simon i shall give you a call this evening if thats ok. With regards to the comments Jamie made is the Championship ie the cars not heavily scrutineered??? I was kinda hoping (maybe naively) that the cars where quite heavily scrutineered. This on it's own could make the championship closer. Even if it was just one car per race that they picked on it would deter people from shall we say bending the rules. Did you have problems with the car Geofff??? I will make it to Rockingham (one way or another) but i will have had limited running in time in the car so no doubt i will be a complete clueless idiot come race day. Cheers John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon4007 Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 I can only comment on the feedback I'm getting back from some of the longer standing Westfield drivers, but it seems that Scrutinieering is a lot more heavily policed this year than previous ones. Not so much if you finish out of the top 6, but apparently we have a new championship scrutineer who has been making many more checks than in the past.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofff Posted August 16, 2005 Author Share Posted August 16, 2005 Hi John, I can make Rockingham on a late entry with no running whatsoever. But I'm not competing for the Championship so I'm not chancing it. I can at least get some driving in on Swindon's dual carriageways to shake out any gremlins. Also see if I can get myself in on a test at Llandow or Hullavington to get a VERY rough set up. The car is booked in for a suspension set up next Monday and second rolling road session Tuesday (first was emissions run for SVA). And I'll take the car along to my area meet a week Thursday just to prove it's not a phantom Westfield only alive in my mind! No problems with the car - just my slllllooooowwwww build. Actually that's untrue - I've built the car twice that's the problem. Once for SVA, once for racing. Hopefully I can now begin to reap the rewards of that decision. As long as you treat Rockingham as a test / set up / shake down you can only come away positively! BTW is the Rockingham race on the Saturday? Good luck!!!!! Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon4007 Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Geoff, the Westfield will only be racing on the Sunday - most of the weekend being focused around the Ginettas (seniors & juniors) and the Formula Woman events. Draft timetables are available on the BARC website here I won't be at Snetterton, but look forward to seeing you both at Mallory. Cheers Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Scarfe Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 I don't know where the idea of the non level playing field and not being heavily scrutineered came from, but IME the Westfield championship IS very tightly controlled. Much more so than some others I can think of. In the original days as Mark said, there used to be multiple classes and anything goes. This produced very good racing. If anything the single class excludes a lot of people and since the Westfield has many different engine options I personally think the rules should allow for this. With the current Zetec championship, there is still scope to adjust certain things. You are allowed to balance the engine, tune the ignition curve and adjust the cam timing for instance. This is what the proper engine builders do in order to get the optimum out of the engine. If you just shove in a lump out of a scrap car it is bound to be slightly lower on power isn't it. I severely doubt there is anyone bending the rules. It is a very fair championship. I agree with Geoff, the decline this year is mainly due to the rule changes, people changing championships and general lack of cash. Many championships (with the exception of the MX5's it would seem) are suffering from low grids. I am sure it will pick up again when things settle down and a bit more money is available. I hope to be back one day, but I am struggling to do one let alone two series at the moment. Cheers. Keith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofff Posted August 16, 2005 Author Share Posted August 16, 2005 Hi, In that case, barring unforeseen incident, I will be at Rockingham to watch. Should be a good day! Simon you're 24. John what number are you? Ta Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofff Posted August 16, 2005 Author Share Posted August 16, 2005 Hi Keith, How is the EERC going? Ta Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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