geofff Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Hi All, I know from the minutes of the last formulae meeting that a duratec engined class (suggested - but vetoed - running a trial car this year I think) was suggested. If the series goes this way in a few years (probably running two classes for a period?) what would be the likely regs? I mean we're basically running Formula Ford Zetec engine regs at the moment. I'm just thinking ahead for possible conversion - I'd like to increase my knowledge of engine building / engine control systems and wonder if the regs will be open enough to allow me to do this - bike throttle bodies and Megasquirt/jolt or whether it's likely to be another link with Alpha Webber. Ta Geoff P.S. 30 hours work + suspension set up + RR session = Snetterton I'm getting there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Scarfe Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Hi Geoff. I had a bit of a chat with Richard at Donington and asked a very similar question. The official word is that the championship will continue, as it is (Zetec engines) for the foreseeable future - This being for the next 2 or 3 years. They can't give anything more than this as things may change and in racing you have to give this much notice to change anything. Unofficially though we all know about the problem of getting hold of DCOE carbs and that the Zetec has now finished production. Richard said they will be looking at using the duratec engine in standard Formula Ford spec. i.e. the 1600. This means it can (and probably will have to) be bought from Ford Motorsport. It will also use the std induction system ( ). This will however mean it will more than likely be slower than the current Zetec setup so no one knows how this will work in practice. Initially 2 classes I guess then only the 1600. I personally think this will be crap. The new cars need to be faster not slower, but using the S2000 type spec will be very costly and Richard doesn't think there will be enough takers - which is true. Keeping it as cheap as possible is probably the way to go but will any one be interested in a slow race series. He did say that they would supply a conversion kit to transplant the new engine into the Zetec chassis so allowing older race cars to continue. I expect however a new chassis would be the way to go as it would be like the S2000 - newer design, stiffer, lighter etc. Please note most of this is speculation and my ideas not official words. HTH. Keith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofff Posted August 4, 2005 Author Share Posted August 4, 2005 Hi Keith, No probs about speculation I think a 1600 class wouldn't take off as you say. Probably better off waiting until the 2L duratec becomes more plentiful in w/o scrap cars - shouldn't be more than 5 years away. Any ideas when the Formula Ford boys will go Duratec? Two reasons - shake out any problems with duratec engines (will they be 1600?) & a cheap supply of blue printed Zetec's Maybe I'll move on to the 750MC Formula 1000 in a couple of years - if it takes off that is. Ta Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon4007 Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 I think more of the impetus for a change in the series should come from Westfield. Better discounting for those that are ready to commit themselves to the series, and a strong direction for the championship going forward. This period of indecision is not good for the championship..... are you really going to commit yourself and your money to a series that may or may not be running (in it's current form) in a couple of years time! The drivers also need to make their voices heard too, and be united. If we were to all go out and buy 2000S based machines it wouldn't just be the outlay of buying the new car that would kill us, it would also be the huge loss we'd have to take on our old ones. Me myself, I would like to the see series to progress, but there needs to be at least a 2-3 year transition where both the Duratec and the current Zetec's compete in the same races but different classes. This should be an interesting topic, I'm looking forward to reading peoples opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Scarfe Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 there needs to be at least a 2-3 year transition where both the Duratec and the current Zetec's compete in the same races but different classes. I to recon that is exactly what will happen. They need to do something otherwise the series will die or get merged with another. That would be a shame as it has been a strong series ever since it started some 13 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofff Posted August 5, 2005 Author Share Posted August 5, 2005 Hi, I hope the series doesn't die. It's always a possibility to switch to the 750MC kit car series but aerodynamics would penalize you at Snetterton especially. There were 16 Westfields qualifying at Donnington. I aboslutely guarantee I will be out at Snetterton and Mallory - that's 17. You've got subarujohn building to race. So hopefully will get back to 20 by the close of the season if a few old hands show up? Do you think it was the cost / hassle of the roll cage (which I still think is a good thing) which made a lot of people drop out this year? Was it this year you had to fill the drivers side with foam as well or was that 2004? Ta Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbean Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 a few random thoughts in no particular order: The drivers side has always had to be filled with foam right from the early days. At the moment we have not even got stickers on the cars to indicate what championship it is as they did not appear from the factory........................yet? Switching to 750mc is difficutt for some as they don't allow rose jointed wishbones. Discounts....err what are they? registered competitors used to get 10%. The full cage was rather expensive, very heavy and a bit of a pain to fit, but i suppose it was going to happen anyway. This may be stirring it a bit, (i wait to be shot at) and i am never ever going to be near the front of the grid no matter what engine i stick in it, but it does seem that to be really competitive you really do need a dunnell engine, which is rather expensive and may put people off. I am not having a go at those who have one, and the clear ability to use it. dunnell obviously do things to the cam timming and ecu as these things are free in the regs that make them go so well but it has increased potential costs , and in hindsight I think the series should have gone down the route of sealed engine and stock sealed ecu. Ginneta (sp) have done this......full grids. In the days of x/flows and class A there were full grids, perhaps because the engine was cheaper etc and you could do less to it as it was a simple engine (if oily! They were also slower...........still had full grids. Saying all of this i am really enjoying it and it does not have to be mega expensive, most of my car was second hand and cost about 6k to put together (a dunnell would add a large amount to this), but i really enjoy myself battling at the back which is what it is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhawkins Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 but i really enjoy myself battling at the back which is what it is all about. Battling at the back is what it's all about? (Yes, I know what you meant ) Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon4007 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 phnar phnar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofff Posted August 5, 2005 Author Share Posted August 5, 2005 Hmmm, Didn't know about the rose jointed suspension and 750MC point - will investigate that! Ta Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon4007 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 This may be stirring it a bit, (i wait to be shot at) and i am never ever going to be near the front of the grid no matter what engine i stick in it, but it does seem that to be really competitive you really do need a dunnell engine Troy Robinson (Northampton Motorsport) has done a nice job the last 3 races, taking Scott Pettifer's standard engined car and finishing 5th, 3rd, and 6th just last weekend at Donington. Ok, he has every resource to get the car properly prepared - but it does go to show it can be done without a Dunnell engine. Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbean Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Yes i agree you don't have to have a dunnell....but from the perception of someone thinking to join the championship and wanting to win (with the ability to do so). They look at the front of the grid and the top 3 finishers for most races and what is there? So they calculate the cost................and buy a something else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon4007 Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 OK yeah, totally take your point when you put it like that. Sealed engines might definitely be one way to go in the future.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geofff Posted August 5, 2005 Author Share Posted August 5, 2005 Hi jbean, I've just read the 750MC KC regs and I can't see where rose joints are specifically disallowed. Why do you think they're disallowed? Ta Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbean Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Hi This bit under suspension in kit car regs 2. prohibited mods use of spherical rod ends, rose joints Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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