MAT1800 Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Hi All, Got yet another problem, I've Email WF and was waiting for a reply, however probably due to the number of people contacting them on a Monday after the weekend, I'm still awaiting a reply, and with time before my SVA so short, I thought I'd throw this one out to the forum, to see what ideas there are out there. This is what I sent WF as a description of how I've set up the cooling system and a descrition of what appears to be wrong. " The water pump at the bottom of the engine is connected to the bottom of the radiator, and also a feed that comes off the main pipe and goes up to the heater matrix and on to the base of the expansion tank. The feed from the heater matrix then goes out to the thermostat, entering it on the exhaust side, via the smaller inlet. The pipe from the top of the rad goes back to the large inlet on the thermostat housing again on the exhaust side. There is a small tube from the very top of the thermostat housing back to the top of the expansion tank. AND the small inlet to the thermostat housing on the other side of the engine (NOT exhaust side) is blanked off. The problem is my temp gauge doesn’t seem to be working, the pointer lifts off the needle when the ignition is turned on, but never moves after that. The engine starts getting very hot very quickly, although I belive they run at about 88 degrees so how hot I'm not sure. I was running the engine over the weekend to check it and the water in the small pipe to the heater and the pipe from the heater to the thermostat was getting hot, but the large pipe out of the rad wasn’t, I presumed the thermostat hadn’t opened. But then there was an awfull noise, (according to a friend) the sound of the water pump running dry perhaps because of an airlock, perhaps the thermostat had just opened and an airlock had worked it’s way through?? But without the temp gauge I couldn’t tell what temp the engine was. " Any help with checking that I do have the system in properly and/or figuring out if the temp sender is faulty or just stuck in air, will be a massive help to me. It's been suggested that I try placing the sender in a mug of hot water, so I'll try that tonight. Cheers (don't know what I did with the title then??) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Visit Steppenwolfs site for detail (and I do mean detail) on all things Zetec. If it's not on there, you don't need it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAT1800 Posted July 4, 2005 Author Share Posted July 4, 2005 Thanks again Blatman... This forum would seem rather empty without you. I think (after re-reading my post) I should have been more precise, I have looked at various build sites including that one, and others that I believe you suggested to someone else with cooling probs, and I have as far as I can tell connected the pipework as stated. It's just I wanted to check that 1. There should be a pipe on the themostat housing blanked off. 2. This should be the single pipe on its own, the other two pipes (exhaust side) go from the heater and the rad. Or should I have blanked off the other pipe? If this is correct then I presume from other posts that I have probably got an airlock, hence the water temp gague not reading also. If however I've blanked off the wrong pipe, then I could have more serious problems, allbeit rather simple to solve... If anyone out there has any pics of the themostat housing area on a new 1800zetec build they could post send, that would be handy. I'll check Stepehnwolfs site again, although I do have print outs in the garage .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 I think I'll refrain from saying any more on this as I'm not an expert on Zetec cooling systems. Hopefully Stepps or one of the other Zetec boys will be along in a moment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAT1800 Posted July 4, 2005 Author Share Posted July 4, 2005 ** There was a post from Mel here with some nice pics from the manual, Don't know why but its gone now?? ** Cheers Mel, Those are similar to the pics I found, The only details in my manual were two pictures of a system installed! I understood that this caused overcooling and since it has changed so that one pipe is blanked off. I blanked off hose F But now (after the probs this weekend) am wondering if I should have blanked off K instead, as the hose from my heater matrix goes to pipe K now. My alloy pipe J has no spur on it, and the fan switch is now on the rad. If I was to make these changes it would then be the same as your pics, but with out the small hose joining alloy pipe J. What do you think?? Regards, Mat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melt Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Mat1800, The over cooling issue was changed by blanking off hose k and having a tee off the water pump hose going to the small connector on the exhaust side of the thermostat, I don't think this change is agreed by WF but it is what you can find on Steppenwolfs site in the tips clicky Might be quicker to stick to the WF manual method until after your SVA HTH Mel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deano.1 Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Mat1800, The over cooling issue was changed by blanking off hose k and having a tee off the water pump hose going to the small connector on the exhaust side of the thermostat, I don't think this change is agreed by WF but it is what you can find on Steppenwolfs site in the tips clicky Might be quicker to stick to the WF manual method until after your SVA HTH Mel Westfield have been piping Zetecs as per this conversion for a while now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenwolf Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 The layout that you have described differs from mine (converted) but I note that you do not appear to have a ducted nose so there may be some tiny detail differences. However, you have blanked off a different outlet on the thermostat housing to me although this should not actually make any difference as far as I can see. I do, however, have two extra pipes that you don't appear to have :- (1) a small bleed pipe from the top hose (at the radiator end) that goes to a 'T' leading to the top of the expansion tank. (2) an additional pipe (my 'over-cooling' mod.) that goes from the bottom hose where it enters the pump to the thermostat housing. Would it help if I posted my complete connection diagram? Bear in mind though that my car is a 1999 supplied kit and I have a ducted nose installation which may mean a slightly different layout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenwolf Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 I have decided to post the following drawings just in case you or anyone else finds them of use! The items in red are the modifications that I have made from the standard 1999 installation and represent the 'over-cooling mod'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jak Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Just a thought on the guage fault, have you swapped the Ford temp' guage sender with the one supplied with the kit. Also it needs a seperate earth - the stat housing is plastic don't forget. From what I can see in your description of the cooling system it's the same as mine, and Kerrys' and they both work OK. John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flappa Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Mine works fine as the standard WF setup. The only thing is that the gauge does not read at lower temperatures. It only starts reading once the thermostat has opened. Other than that it sits happily at 90 during normal running, and just creeps up in traffic until the fan kicks in. Have you run it up to temperature yet? It seemed to take ages the first time I ran mine. You also need to check the earth on your sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markcoopers Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Yep second that, check the earth on the sender, Took me a day after converting to Zetec to spot it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAT1800 Posted July 5, 2005 Author Share Posted July 5, 2005 Thanks for all the suggestions, I've had a go last night, I changed the system slightly so instead of blanking off the smaller pipe that joins pipe K, I've blanked off the other small pipe that joins E, and attatched the heater unit to the other side as in pipe K. Whilst filling, in an attempt to ensure there were no airlocks, I kept jacking up the front and then the back alterrnatively, between pints (coolant that is ) at one point with the back jacked up the expansion tank emptied, presumably this could have been an airlock clearing? I tried running it, and it seemed OK, I don't think I quite got it up to temp, I was a bit worried in getting it too hot if the system wasn't right. I have a mate coming around tonight, who knows more than me about car engines, so he will be able to look out for any danger signs as I try running it up to temp. I checked the temp sender, there is water around the unit, as it flooded out as I unscrewed it, I ran another temp earth to check it was earthed properly this seemed to make little dif. I have put the earth ring on the exhaust manifold bolt closest to the sender, perhaps this is the prob? I thought this was the place to earth it due to the thermostat housing being plastic? Thanks for all the pics and advice, I'm a lot more confident that the system is right now, so I'll be checking the sender unit, with a mug of hot water, and then running it up to temp, If I can tell when that is... to then chaeck the themostat. Thanks. Mat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 I have put the earth ring on the exhaust manifold bolt closest to the sender, perhaps this is the prob? I thought this was the place to earth it due to the thermostat housing being plastic? I would earth it elsewhere simply because the exhaust manifold will be extremely hot, and electrical resistance changes with heat. Plus that heat will soak down the cable, so it's a bit of a double whammy for that part of the circuit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 You must earth the temperature sender as said in previous posts.Unscrew the sender ,slide the earth ring over sender and if you can find a way of making sure that the earth ring is secure to sender once it is finally screwed in to the plastic housing.Then place spade connector to sender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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