Classes C+ & D+

[Kev Bamber]

At Thorseby today I overheard here may be an intent to create a C+ & D+ for roadgoing cars.

C & D will allow only cars as the factory produced/intended  with NO modifications.

I think C+ & D+ may comprise all other roadgoing cars, i.e. those with modded suspension (roll bars, moved pick up points etc), Vauxhall, Toyo, K series engines & the like as never fitted by Westfield, & even diffusers & stuff.

Is this really what we want?

Kev the ear-wigger!

[bikerush]

puts my reverse box woes into the shade then....

[ian crocker]

It is often said in rallying circles that speed eventers won't be happy until everybody has their own class!

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

...and where's the logic in that?

[Mrs Westy]

to assemble a car with all the right bits to be competitive takes a lot of time and no insignificant amount of money.

I'm not offering an opinion - just playing devil's advocate.  I didn't hear the rumour, but I reckon that you've hit the nail on the head there with *exactly* that point - that the ethos of the speed series was, and still is, to encourage car enthusiasts to dip their toes into the waters of competitive motorsport.

So, let's put the boot on the other foot...you are a Westfield enthusiast with a limited budget.  You have bought yourself a lovely, fairly standard, Westfield which you regularly drive on the road - maybe your only car - and you fancy having a go at racing it.  You choose the WSS because (a) it's a club full of Westfield enthusiasts and (b) their ethos is all about helping novices...

So,  you enter your class and find yourself pitted not only against similar cars, but against highly modified ones which, as you have said, have had "no insignificant amount of money" spent on them.  Given the original speed series ethos, is that fair on the novice enthusiast with a limited budget?  

Equally I can see your point of view... I suspect that the organising committee can too, and are currently discussing a number of different options, hence the alleged C+ and D+ theory.  What constitutes a standard Westfield, however, is anyone's guess...

[davidgh]

Writing this diatribe has taken a few minutes, so apologies to anyone who has made these points in the meantime.

This sounds a little quaint to me  

Several points seem to argue against such a tight ruling:

First. a Westy is a kit car first, and a factory build second (perhaps unlike a 7). Every customer build is bound to be different from factory build in some way. Who is to judge whether that difference is 'significant'? Conclusion: it would make the rules very difficult to interpret/enforce.

Second, tight rules are only of use if they are enforced. Conclusion: we could be headed for a scrute's nightmare and a culture of protests and acrimony.

Third, WSCC is an open club. Non-Westies (see avatar) are welcome. If you ban 'non-standard' Westies from the 'standard road going classes', then presumably, you ban the standard 7/RH/Dax/Dutton/MK/Strikers which are welcome in classes A-D now. Conclusion: reduction in inclusiveness and diversity.

Fouth, sunk cost. Some members have put significant investment into making 'their' Westy suit their needs. It looks as though we are planning to differentiate between members who have spent their (presumably hard earned) shekels on a VX or K    and those who have fettled a Zetec or Duratec . Conclusion: divisive.

Fifth, future cost. Formula Ford tells us that it is possible to spend inordinate sums of money on optimising 'standard' kit  --  much more for any specific performance improvement than 'non-approved options'. Conclusion: waste of money.

Sixth, development. If there are competitors out there who modify their cars (for instance, repositioning the suspension mounts) and then go on to win stuff, then it is just possible there may be a causal relationship. Perhaps the factory should take note . Conclusion: to be encouraged.

Additionally: SS is supposed to be fun .

As you might be able to tell, on the basis of the limited info available, it doesn't sound like a great idea to me

Simple rules please. Tax/insurance/MOT/1A/screen/wipers or free. Car or bike engine. Engine size. Novice or expert. Those seem to cover it for me.

David

[Ian Podmore]

With the suspension mounting point clause, surely it should either be retained and enforced or dropped from the regs

And as far as I'm aware, class A has been a happy place this year, which has catered well for novices.  I'm not aware of anyone not enjoying their first step into competition that the WSCC SS novice classes have provided, so why change it?

If you move up to C/D, then IMO the C & D clases should reflect the normal sprints and hills regs that the MSA and the majority of clubs use so that drivers can progress into bigger things with the car that they are developing, and so that they can be in normal classes 'on the day' with other kit cars?  Why introduce yet another class and dilute things in the SS?

[Turbo Tommo]

Don't know where this C+ & D+ has come from. I certainly didn't hear anything at Thoresby. From what I've heard here it would seem to push us even further away from the "norm" than we are now, which I for one would not campaign! Lets stick to the Blue Book like other series' do!!

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

Don't know where this C+ & D+ has come from. I certainly didn't hear anything at Thoresby. From what I've heard here it would seem to push us even further away from the "norm" than we are now, which I for one would not campaign! Lets stick to the Blue Book like other series' do!!

Tommo right, lot of sense in trying to keep in line with the events we are entering on the day rather than going further away from them

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

So does that me us bike engined guys can go in C+ and D+ as well, just like other clubs do      

If so C+ & D+ gets my vote        

[Mrs Westy]

lot of sense in trying to keep in line with the events we are entering on the day rather than going further away from them

So if we're going to keep in line with other things, shouldn't we be calling D+ "DD" instead, to keep it in line with bra sizes?

Edit: *resists urge to speculate whether the bigger tits would be in the new + classes...*

[Blatman]

It looks as though we are planning to differentiate between members who have spent their (presumably hard earned) shekels on a VX or K    and those who have fettled a Zetec or Duratec  . Conclusion: divisive.

Hmmmm. Vx's were offered by the factory, so would be allowed. Same for Pinto's, Cosworths, Crossflows, Zetecs, V8's, and Duratecs. In fact, the only engines that haven't been a factory fit are the Toyota and Vx 1.6. I wouldn't object to either being allowed in "standard" classes...

I'm also fairly sure that the SS organisers are experienced enough, and have enough common sense to be able to work through ALL these various issues without making a complete Horlicks of it...

shouldn't we be calling D+ "DD" instead, to keep it in line with bra sizes?

Edit: *resists urge to speculate whether the bigger tits would be in the new + classes...*

Nice nunney, Mrs W

[Turbo Tommo]

Nice nunney, Mrs W

Wish I'd thought of that    

[ian crocker]

...and where's the logic in that?

Because most rallies run to regional rules have 5 classes.  Most sprints have about 16, some as many as 20 or more, and yet still competitors want more splits and classes to enhance their chance of winning a pot!

[woodman]

C & D will allow only cars as the factory produced/intended  with NO modifications.

I think C+ & D+ may comprise all other roadgoing cars, i.e. those with modded suspension (roll bars, moved pick up points etc), Vauxhall, Toyo, K series engines & the like as never fitted by Westfield, & even diffusers & stuff.

I think this would be a nightmare for SS organisers/scruts to police

All these minor mods do have an effect ,but the main difference is power and ability. imo

The bike engine cars could be welcome in C if we dropped the CC catorgry to 1679