Mark Purves Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Bad Day traveling Not a nice end for a Caterham. However driver and passenger recovering in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Keene Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 They're alive... Make me thankful I've just put an RAC Bar on mine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick.Petty Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Saw this over on blatchat. Makes you wonder doesn't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studbuckle Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 The weld failure aside, I'd be quite pleased with the integrity of the passenger cell given the nature of the accident. Nasty, yes but the fact that both passenger and driver are still alive shows that the design works. Now, the question is... Is the Caterham 'standard' roll bar better than the 'standard' westfield bar? I would say that the Westfield one is ultimatley stronger but lacks the bracing of the Caterham which counts for a lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Purves Posted July 15, 2004 Author Share Posted July 15, 2004 The problem I see with the Westfield one is the single bolt fixing coming from underneath. Not at all good IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studbuckle Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 I'd like to understand why they changed from the 3 bolts around the base to the single bolt from underneath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Purves Posted July 15, 2004 Author Share Posted July 15, 2004 Probably a VA/VE exercise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oioi Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 perhaps they changed to avoid the kind of weld failure shown? i havent seen the new single bolt design, I am guessing its a fairly large bolt up into the tube itself? this may be stronger than westfields welding... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzer Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 The weld failure aside, I'd be quite pleased with the integrity of the passenger cell given the nature of the accident.Nasty, yes but the fact that both passenger and driver are still alive shows that the design works. Now, the question is... Is the Caterham 'standard' roll bar better than the 'standard' westfield bar? I would say that the Westfield one is ultimatley stronger but lacks the bracing of the Caterham which counts for a lot In my opinion it is the rear and side bracing that makes all the difference. Without the rear bracing a bar will just fold flat. Another advert for people to upgrade to a FIA bar !!!! A must before New wheels, engine, shocks, ARB's or even petrol in my opinion. IF YOU END UP UPSIDE DOWN WITH THE STANDARD BAR YOU ARE VERY LIKELY TO BE IN BIG TROUBLE !!!!! Sorry for that but I think the factory should make it clear that the standard unbraced bar is cosmetic only !!!! Bazzer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Purves Posted July 15, 2004 Author Share Posted July 15, 2004 I grabbed hold of a single bolt rollbar at the 3rd July BBQ and you can flex it with very little amount of force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studbuckle Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 I thought, for once, this would be a sensible thread on the merits of the different roll bars without comments like 'cosmetic only' which, IMHO is pure conjecture, without eveidence and as far as I can see is tantamount to scare mongering. I know all the stories about standard bars being 'less' effective than FIA bar in roll over but to say that it is cosmetic makes a mockery of the Westfield factory design and SVA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilwillis Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 For SVA, there is no requirement for a roll bar of any sort. As for the effectiveness of the standard roll bar, take no chances, go for the RAC bar every time. I'm not suggesting the standard bar is sub-standard, simply that it is not designed to take the sort of loads the RAC bar will withstand. It has to be the most important safety device in the car after seat belts. Is it really worth taking a chance with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveF Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 This sort of thing has been shown a few times now - and the conclusion every time is that the the standard rollbar is a chocolate teapot. Beats me why westfield don't make it easier to live with an RAC bar - all it would take in most cases would be options for toneau cover / roof / bootbox / locking box fitments that allowed the RAC bar to be used with these things. 1) For the bootbox - all they would need to do would be to narrow the box part by a couple of inches on either side - so that the brace went through the flat top section rather than having to cut the sides of the box to make the bar fit - the hole could then be tidied with a section of trim. 2) for the toneau cover its a trivial change to allow the rear braces to go through the bootbox cover - something which caterham do quite neatly as standard with a small velcro fastner 3) for the roof - there was a thread recently about using a standard roof with an RAC bar - and it apprears a minor redesign of the roof to add a little extra length to the rear would allow it to fit 4) for locking boot boxes - if the box was designed as noted in (1) - then the locking section could be made to cover this section only - which wouldn't interfere with the rear struts All of the above is not rocket science - and for a small amount of effort on the factories side could potentially sell more kit - as those buying RAC bars have to give up on most of the above - or make big compramises Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzer Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 I thought, for once, this would be a sensible thread on the merits of the different roll bars without comments like 'cosmetic only' which, IMHO is pure conjecture, without eveidence and as far as I can see is tantamount to scare mongering. I was being deadly serious and anyone with any idea of materials and physics can see a hoop of mild steel attached by two bolts that will be in single sheer in an accident, will realise it is about as much use as a chocolate fire guard Grab it and give it a wiggle for god sake. Sorry if I appear rude, but I think even calling it a roll over bar is misleading, it is for decorative purposes only. Bazzer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mb893 Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 RAC bar (or a cage if I could afford one) every time, the hoop type standard bar looks OK and means you can get the hood on the car, but as a safety device it makes a great place to hang your towel (all IMHO of course*). * Have you noticed that when people use that phrase, they're usually are being anything but humble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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