Petrol Ped - Westfield

[jonjh1964]

Petrol Ped

 

Interesting

[Rob Hunter - Club Secretary]

3 minutes ago, jonjh1964 said:

Petrol Ped

 

Interesting

Beat me to it! 😂

[Stuart]

£52k!

[Rob Hunter - Club Secretary]

Just now, Stuart said:

£52k!

 

A sign of the times I'm afraid..... A factory built Caterham 420 SV to a similar specification is well north of £60k these days! 

 

It won't do our own residual values any harm though 

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

21 minutes ago, Rob Hunter - Club Secretary said:

 

A sign of the times I'm afraid..... A factory built Caterham 420 SV to a similar specification is well north of £60k these days! 

 

It won't do our own residual values any harm though 

 

One of the car dealers who I know near me opened up a NE Caterham dealership this year, I knew Caterhams were expensive by near fell of my chair at today's prices. But as you've said Rob, sign of todays times. 

[Greenstreak-Andy D]

I wish them well, just a shame they are so expensive and a home build option, they have ruled out …. To me that’s a shame.

Acceleration seemed a bit slower than I was expecting too. 
Andy

[Martin van Zeller]

First thing - that stupid,stupid 'roll' bar.

Second thing - no kit version (but maybe later)!

Third thing - what's that engine???

Fourth thing - Petrol Ped!!!!

 

Rory's Dad 

 

 

[Rob Hunter - Club Secretary]

When we visited them, they weren't ruling out a home build option in the future.

 

A recent article my Top Gear on the GBS Zero adds a bit more pricing context to the current "seven" market.

 

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/gbs/zero/first-drive

 

 

[Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO]

33 minutes ago, Rob Hunter - Club Secretary said:

When we visited them, they weren't ruling out a home build option in the future.

 

A recent article my Top Gear on the GBS Zero adds a bit more pricing context to the current "seven" market.

 

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/gbs/zero/first-drive

 

 

This bit doesn't read well 🤦‍♂️

 

 

Surely GBS would have a car set up well before throwing the keys at a jorno.

 

[Rob Hunter - Club Secretary]

42 minutes ago, Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO said:

This bit doesn't read well 🤦‍♂️

 

 

Surely GBS would have a car set up well before throwing the keys at a jorno.

 

 

I agree, it would put me off a little wanting a drivers car at a £50k price point.

 

While it won't be the only thing impacting the dynamics, I have always thought the steering rack is mounted very low on the Zero and therefore it may suffer from a bit of bump steer? Obviously its an oversimplification as I can't measure the suspension and tie rod arcs of travel, but as a layman I would have expected the optimal position to be in line with the wheel centre.....

 

 

Look at a Caterham and later Westfields and the rack is pretty much equidistant from the top and bottom wishbones which you would expect to be more optimal.

 

 

 

I've driven a Caterham, my current MegaS2000 and my previous 1996 SEIW. The Caterham and Mega are far less nervous over bumps and don't chase the camber like my SEIW did. I always put it down to the steering geometry (the SEIW had the lower steering rack) but could be wrong.... My previous SEIW could have been set up incorrectly and therefore I'm talking absolute flannel as usual 😂😂😂

[dvd8n]

33 minutes ago, Rob Hunter - Club Secretary said:

While it won't be the only thing impacting the dynamics, I have always thought the steering rack is mounted very low on the Zero and therefore it may suffer from a bit of bump steer? Obviously its an oversimplification as I can't measure the suspension and tie rod arcs of travel, but as a layman I would have expected the optimal position to be in line with the wheel centre

 

It was always my impression that it was the relationship between the rack and the steering arms that affected bump steer rather than between the rack and the hub itself.  Hence why you can affect bump steer by cranking the steering arms or with tricks like fitting them upside down.  So it doesn't necessarily matter in absolute terms what the rack height is as long as the arms are designed for that height.  Or maybe I'm wrong 🤔

[Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO]

 

I recall Adam (formerly of CleaR Motorsport)  wrote up some real world tests on the lobster and documented it on here.

 

Bump Steer findings

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman)]

First off, just speaking generally, bump steer itself is not necessarily bad, it can be a dangerous assumption to get into. Uncontrolled bump steer is indeed a bad thing. However, some bump steer, when controlled and incorporated into the overall design of the suspension can be used very effectively - Lotus for example, are hugely skilled at this sort of thing!

 

Westfields, however, are a different beast. Here, there is certainly benefit in reducing it as much as possible; we have a fairly old, and while reasonably effective, not particularly sophisticated suspension design, with a number of built in “inherited” compromises.

 

You can’t necessarily just move one end of the steering linkage in isolation, it all depends “where” the bump steer is coming from. 
 

In the case of the Westfield chassis, it needs a combination of a higher rack position and higher tie rod end connections to the front uprights.

 

TBH, I’ve never actually tested this set up to see how much bump remains, I suspect the final steering geometry we have is going to be a production compromise, to avoid too many new parts! It’s quite possible the rack would be better a little higher still. But this would then require either modified front uprights to raise the height of the steering arms to suit, or, a spacer on the arms, to increase the height of the track rod ends to match the rack. (Always think these look dodgy, but know they can work perfectly well).

 

Be interesting to know how much bump the Mega/Sport chassis still has.

 

 

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman)]

Good video, enjoyed watching it over lunch, I’ve seen Petrolped come up in my You Tube feed a few times, I like his reviews style - subscribed.

 

But, as much as I was enjoying it, and thinking great, someone who’s been around Westfields for decades, has experience of Caterham, too, as well as lots of performance/sports cars from the big manufacturers my heart sank when he actually went out for a drive, and almost his first words were “I’ve never driven a Westfield before”. Doh! I was hoping he had the driving experience to compare it to previous generations. In particular, I want to know how much of a jump it feels over the Aerorace and Mega/Sport chassis’s, that were the previous top of the WSC Ltd tree. 
 

Great review though! And the Prodev engines are sounding spot on in the Westfield platform.

 

 

[Kit Car Electronics and Essex AO]

I liked it, and it seems to be getting a lot of views and positive comments, even from ex-Caterham owners. The NA spec seems pretty spot on for engine, box, diff, chassis and I think they've pitched that really well. I'd rather have seen a proper roll bar but presumably that's on the options list. Good to hear they've been fairly careful with the weight, too.

 

Certainly they've done more development than 'old' Westfield managed in their final years, fingers crossed and good luck to the team.

 

It will be good to have them involved in the 40year celebrations next year, now they're definitely 'back'!