Westfield Cosworth Spec

[Moz]

Hi all

Considering a purchase of a Westfield and one has taken my eye.  I like driving fast but my technical knowledge is very poor.

Here's the spec:

10,500 miles. SeiW body in yellow

Good condition all round

4x4 engine (green top)

330BHP chip with Green Injectors & T34 Hybrid turbo

Wire ringed block

Baffled Winged Sump

Hi-Spec 4 pot calipers

LSD  

2 sets wheels (1 cut slicks, 1 road tyres)

Twin Axle Trailor

Full Car cover

Aeroscreen

RAC Roll over bar

Questions:

1)  Has anyone had any experience with this engine in their Westfield?  I presume it's quick (! but what about reliability, ease / cost of maintenance?.  Is the engine too heavy / have implications for the cars handling?

2)  It is priced at £10,500 all in.  Does this sound reasonable?  It is a 1997 model.

3)  Any obvious drawbacks to using it as a road / track day / hillsprint car?

Many thanks in advance.

[Nick.Petty]

No experience of this particular car although it sounds very much like one that has been knocking around on various ads for some time now. Is it Isle of Wight based?

Its a helluva power output - is it your first Westy and what are you used to driving? I found my first Westy with 135bhp 1.6 Toyota 4age power plenty quick enough. Call me a boring old fart but 330bhp in a first Westy sounds like a recipe for disaster. Track day/sprinting maybe ok but on the road I would imagine its a right handful and not many places you could use that type of power.

Blatters 'll be along in a minute - he's got a Cossie powered sprint car I believe, although I don't think it is a radically tuned as this one you mention.

Nicko  

[scruffythefirst]

AFAIK blatters runs a nat asp conversion cossie, so not the same sort of problems i guess.

I'm going to be building a cossie powered dax (the wait is killing me) and really looking forward to it!  I'll be starting with a standard tune though.  Its really easy to change back to the standard 220bhp set up, just change the chip and injectors for a few hundred quid and bung the 803's and stage 3 chip back in when you get upgradeitus.  Probably be a bit less laggy as 220bhp as well.

Personaly i don't like the idea of wire ringing a block - basicaly they cut a grove into the mating surface of the block and fill it with welding wire which gives a ridge for the headgasket to seal on.  This used to be the best solution for high boost engines but since the cometic gaskets came out its been a bit frowned upon.

The t34 should be fine, less laggy than a t4 and more boost than a t3 (standard iirc)

the 200 block is the better block for high boost engines although the 205 will cope with 350bhp fine.

edit: the 4x4 engines came with a 200 block - so you should see a big 200 stamped on the side soemwhere, worth a lot more second hand than the standard pinto block (205)

Parts for the engine are expensive but tuning it is relitively cheap and its a tried an tested engine, and there is a thriving second hand market for the parts should anything major happen.

HTH

Scruffy

[Moz]

Hi, thanks Nick - yes that's the one.

I drive an Elise 111 and would keep that.  I realised this would be quite a step up power wise, but wanted something fairly extreme to go with my current, sensible family car .

Could you be more specific when you say "on the road I would imagine its a right handful"?  Cheers.

[Moz]

Scruffy - what I understood was very helpful!! Thanks for taking the time.

Any opinions on the price requested?

[scruffythefirst]

Could you be more specific when you say "on the road I would imagine its a right handful"

I expect it would break traction in pretty much any gear at pretty much any speed if your not carefull with your right foot as it comes on boost - but thats half the fun

Any opinions on the price requested?

Seems cheap

which bits didn't you understand, i'll try and be clearer

Scruffy

[Moz]

The wire ringing a block was beyond my knowledge!  Does it just give the head gasket a more secure fix?  If it's now frowned upon - does that mean it may be problematic?.

Thanks for the help.  I seem to be running out of reasons not to get it.!!

[Matt Seabrook]

There was a Cosworth Turbo Westy on here some time ago with about the same output it seemed to change hands so many times in such a short space of time make me think it was too quick

[Mike H]

Why not drop Chris a line at http://g2.nu/chris/westie/

He totally rebuilt an accident damaged one bought of a WSCC member whose name I can't remember.

cheers

Mike

[Blatman]

No such thing as too quick.........  

Scruffy is right, my Cossie is N/A, so I have a different set of problems......

I expect the Cossies have changed hands precisely for the reasons Scruffy states. On a dry track or a hill, where you can keep it wound up, it'll be quick. Add some water, and it'll be a handful.

On the road though, where keeping it on boost all the time would be problematic, I reckon you'll be in for a choppy ride, especially if you're hovering around boost while negotiating a corner. On smooth open roads though, it'll be quick. Spinning up the rear wheels as the boost comes is will be a real probability. Having it surprise you at high speeds on a public road is not half as much fun as it sounds. It would be horrific in the wet.........

As for the mechanics, it has a wire ringed block. So what? This is a known mod, with plenty enough people familiar with it for it not to be a concern. Just because it's out of fashion doesn't mean it doesn't work, and having it work is the most important consideration. Well, more important than fashion at any rate.

Engine weight isn't a concern, although the car will almost certainly be quite a bit heavier than most other Westfields as the 200 block is quite heavy, and the extra plumbing for intercoolers and turbo's and the like also add to the weight penalty over cars that don't have such things. With 330bhp though, it'll still go like a scalded cat. The Elise will feel *very* pedestrian after a blast in the Cossie.......

10.5K seems cheap. Condition is almost everything, so make sure it's in good mechanical and physical order.

Edited to add....

From the web site Mike links to

weight fully fueled 700Kg

power/weight 480BHP/tonne

[Nick.Petty]

Having it surprise you at high speeds on a public road is not half as much fun as it sounds.

Moz. this is what I meant when I said I thought it would be a real handful. I also think Matt is right when he says this car or one very like it seems to change hands quite regularly hence maybe a bit too fast?!!

I used to share an Elise for track days with a mate before I got a Westy and believe me, any 120bhp upwards Westy will wipe the floor with a boggo Elise, 200bhp will go like a scalded cat so 320bhp seems excessive. If you can tame it though, fair play to ya!

I'm no expert mind .............. but I'm sure one will be along in a minute!!

[Matt Seabrook]

No such thing as too quick.........  

Im not so sure I know my driving ability is not up to that kind of power on the road. I have a little over 200bhp and that has had its moments. Went for a passenger ride in a 5000cc V8 Westy with about 340bhp and it was an animal and I would guess that that would be more predictable than a turbo car. Its not so much the BHP that’s the killer its the torque and turbo cars and V8`s have it in bucket loads. If you want to know what 210bhp can do to a V8 TVR then look here. the file size is about 900k so not too big.  

[Blatman]

As with most power/speed arguments, it's the nut holding the steering wheel that's the biggest problem.......If you aren't good enough to be driving flat out on the roads (and given the speed and acceleration of most Westfields, that's probably most of us), then you should stop pressing the loud pedal before it reaches the stop........road conditions can be unpredictable too, unlike track conditions, which adds to the dangers.....

[adhawkins]

road conditions can be unpredictable too, unlike track conditions, which adds to the dangers.....

And no matter how good a driver you might be, there's other road users to consider too.

Like the bloke in the 4x4 approaching me on my side of the road for example...

Andy

[scruffythefirst]

it has a wire ringed block. So what? This is a known mod, with plenty enough people familiar with it for it not to be a concern.

True, but there used to be problems with them not sealing properly if incorectly machined, but as this has been running 330bhp for some time i can't see it being a problem.  Its frowned upon these days cos the cometic gaskets are the better option, they regularly get used on the 450+ autocross cars without problems.  Suffice to say I won't be putting a wire ringed block in my cossie.

If it's got too much power it will be very easy to detune it and it wn't cost you much, if you sell the chip and injectors, you'd probably make money bringing it down to about 220bhp which is a simmilar level of power to many other westies.  There are plenty of dax's out there running 350bhp and above, including one running 4wd and 420bhp iirc so power in itself isn't the problem as everyone said, its who's driving

Take someone who knows westies with you to check the mechanicals out.

I assume its got a T5 box, so check for notchyness between 2 and 3rd which is pretty much the only problems these boxes have.

Any blue smoke out the exhaust is most likely the turbo seals, which isn't too much of a problem to fix.