charliek Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Hi all, Just bought my first Westfield - my knowledge of these cars (and mechanics/cars in general) is very basic but I want to learn more and try to do most of the work on it myself! It was bought with track days in mind as have done a few of these in MR2s and MX5s. It's a 2L Zetec with twin webers, my first question is about the throttle response, I've noticed that if I 'floor it' at low RPM it sort of stumbles over itself and then kicks in, after which it revs fine and can go through the gears with no issues. Is this normal for cars with carbs? Any tips and info on driving cars with carbs would be greatly appreciated - especially the start up procedure where you need to let them fill up with fuel for a few seconds(?). Thanks! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewBClarke Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Welcome. I can’t answer about throttle lag but I do have a carb engine and have learnt how to start without choke. Turn ignition on. Slowly press accelerator to the floor 3 times. Turn key and activate starter with another press of the accelerator. Rev to keep running till steady. This also acts as a neighbour annoyance programme. Have fun. 5 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Welcome! Getting Weber set up right with Zetec engined Westfields is always a little tricky, usually with a compromise or two, being made somewhere. Modern fuel injected cars are so thoroughly sorted, that it can come as a shock to drive traditional carbs. And it's difficult on an internet forum to know to what degree something is happening, if you see what I mean. So it may just be that it's not something you can do much about, BUT, it's always worth getting all the basics right and working well together, and them perhaps getting the carbs jetting etc checked over. One thing I do remember with Weber/Zetec set ups, is that they can be very sensitive to the "progression" drillings, I think Zetecs should have five holes, but four is standard on most Webers? (These are a set of holes drilled in sequence, so that as the throttle snaps open, it uncovers progressively more of them, which it uses as a signal to squirt in extra fuel. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Westwood Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Welcome to the club. I had a similar issue as I run a 2ltr zetec with twin 45 Weber's. After speaking with Alan at Carbcare when he serviced and set up the carbs, he said to keep a bit of throttle on as you change gear and he also increased the idle rpm. It's much better now. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliek Posted February 7, 2023 Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 45 minutes ago, AndrewBClarke said: Welcome. I can’t answer about throttle lag but I do have a carb engine and have learnt how to start without choke. Turn ignition on. Slowly press accelerator to the floor 3 times. Turn key and activate starter with another press of the accelerator. Rev to keep running till steady. This also acts as a neighbour annoyance programme. Have fun. Thank you! I had a rough idea which was similar to this but usually just sort of spam the throttle and pray 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Taylor Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Welcome, can’t help with the carbs but I’m sure someone will be along soon iirc there was a “fix” to do with the progression holes…… or I could be forgetting, like I said I’m sure help will be along soon. enjoy her 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliek Posted February 7, 2023 Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 41 minutes ago, Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman said: Welcome! Getting Weber set up right with Zetec engined Westfields is always a little tricky, usually with a compromise or two, being made somewhere. Modern fuel injected cars are so thoroughly sorted, that it can come as a shock to drive traditional carbs. And it's difficult on an internet forum to know to what degree something is happening, if you see what I mean. So it may just be that it's not something you can do much about, BUT, it's always worth getting all the basics right and working well together, and them perhaps getting the carbs jetting etc checked over. One thing I do remember with Weber/Zetec set ups, is that they can be very sensitive to the "progression" drillings, I think Zetecs should have five holes, but four is standard on most Webers? (These are a set of holes drilled in sequence, so that as the throttle snaps open, it uncovers progressively more of them, which it uses as a signal to squirt in extra fuel. Thank you - it doesn't feel like a major issue but just wanted to see if it was a 'known problem' and was signs of something bad - just sounds like a general thing with carbs/Webers that they are tricky to setup. I'm just not used to driving with carbs as you say so that won't help either! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliek Posted February 7, 2023 Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 45 minutes ago, Andy Westwood said: Welcome to the club. I had a similar issue as I run a 2ltr zetec with twin 45 Weber's. After speaking with Alan at Carbcare when he serviced and set up the carbs, he said to keep a bit of throttle on as you change gear and he also increased the idle rpm. It's much better now. I'll give him a call soon, changing gear in mine feels great so no issues there (I assume!) thank you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Great! The key thing is, do question stuff like this! I can't tell you how many times at local events, shows etc, you get chatting to someone new, that's owned their car for years, but perhaps didn't build it, when they casually mention some little niggle or other, that they've just ignored "because it's a kit car" so bound to have issues, and the shock when you say, no that's not right, it's perhaps not set up right, or set up for some one else's driving style, or sometimes even just build slightly oddly! I always recommend just sorting out basic servicing, once you get the car, so you know for sure when it was last done, and can plan to that date in the future, then, once you've had some time to settle in with the car, find any little bits that need sorting etc. Get the geometry set up done by someone that knows these type of cars and how to get the best out of them. Then just get to know your car, live with it before delving too far into personalising it, you'll soon start to get an idea of what you like/need/works for you! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hunter - Club Secretary Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 My first Westfield was a Zetec on twin 45 webers and it was the same. Modern fuel injection allows you to just plant the throttle at any revs and the electronics sort the fuel/air ratio for you. It's a little less sophisticated with carbs... As others have said, there are things that can be done to smooth the power delivery but carbs tend to be set up for an optimum rev range. My old car was set up for sprinting (huge chokes etc) and was never happy below 3500 rpm but went like a stabbed rat after that, I just had to learn to ease the throttle on gently at low revs (the webers sound amazing though!) Not sure where you're based, but Alan at Carbcare (in Lichfield) as @Andy Westwood recommends is a great guy who does an amazing job at a good price. Lots of us have used him 👍 Love the car BTW! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliek Posted February 7, 2023 Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 40 minutes ago, Rob Hunter Derby & Notts AO said: My first Westfield was a Zetec on twin 45 webers and it was the same. Modern fuel injection allows you to just plant the throttle at any revs and the electronics sort the fuel/air ratio for you. It's a little less sophisticated with carbs... As others have said, there are things that can be done to smooth the power delivery but carbs tend to be set up for an optimum rev range. My old car was set up for sprinting (huge chokes etc) and was never happy below 3500 rpm but went like a stabbed rat after that, I just had to learn to ease the throttle on gently at low revs (the webers sound amazing though!) Not sure where you're based, but Alan at Carbcare (in Lichfield) as @Andy Westwood recommends is a great guy who does an amazing job at a good price. Lots of us have used him 👍 Love the car BTW! I'll definitely speak to him and get his opinion, it doesn't ruin the driving experience at all but wanted to be double sure that it wasn't a problem! I suppose quirks like this make the car more fun to drive and gives it more character 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliek Posted February 7, 2023 Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 54 minutes ago, Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman said: Great! The key thing is, do question stuff like this! I can't tell you how many times at local events, shows etc, you get chatting to someone new, that's owned their car for years, but perhaps didn't build it, when they casually mention some little niggle or other, that they've just ignored "because it's a kit car" so bound to have issues, and the shock when you say, no that's not right, it's perhaps not set up right, or set up for some one else's driving style, or sometimes even just build slightly oddly! I always recommend just sorting out basic servicing, once you get the car, so you know for sure when it was last done, and can plan to that date in the future, then, once you've had some time to settle in with the car, find any little bits that need sorting etc. Get the geometry set up done by someone that knows these type of cars and how to get the best out of them. Then just get to know your car, live with it before delving too far into personalising it, you'll soon start to get an idea of what you like/need/works for you! I'm generally very sceptical about noises or 'weird' things I notice on my cars so always assume there's an issue! In terms of servicing I'm not sure where to start as obviously these cars are a bit of a mix of parts so it's not necessarily easy to know what to do (for example if you have a normal car you can just buy the haynes manual etc). Would assume step 1 is to know exactly what parts the car has and then individually research how to service them?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Yeah that's a good approach. In practice, the cars are really simple, and while driven hard, don't do huge numbers of miles, so some of the preventative work you might expect on a modern tin top, just isn't there. On the other hand, things that modern tin tops have left behind like self undoing bolts can be a thing! As a result, what you'll see referred to as a spanner check will crop up often in maintenance suggestions. Again, on a new to you car, it's practically the first job I'd do! (It's also a great "get to know the car" job, as it will have you poking in all the nooks and crannies! A spanner check is literally going round with a spanner (well, a torque wrench, unless you're a grizzled old mechanic whose touch is just as accurate), and checking all safety critical nuts and bolts are still tight. - you'll see most of us tend to use marker paint on the nuts and bolts both to show we've tightened them properly when building the cars, and to help indicate movement. In truth, except sometimes after a joint has just been assembled, you don't get many slackening off with use, but it can and does happen. (Westfields have almost none of the noise/vibration/harshness damping and management of a car from the last thirty plus years, let alone modern 21st century cars, the vibration and heat is what works them loose occasionally. Check every service, before and after big trips, like Euro tours, and before after particularly hard on the car events like trackdays. Don't get paranoid though, 99.999999% of the time everything will be perfectly fine! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 I think people tend to use the Mondeo workshop manuals for the engine, but for normal servicing, I'm not sure it's really necessary? Asking on here will get you all the variations on peoples favourite oils to use, spark plugs etc. As for things like brake pads, you need to work out what brakes you have, if you're not sure, (and this applies to any part of the car) just grab some good close ups showing plenty of detail from different angles and post them up on here, someone will be able to ID them for you. One tip I would give; particularly when it comes to things where a range of options will suit. Sometimes, after asking for recommendations on here, you can feel like you've got so many alternative suggestions back you're no closer. BUT, this is rarely truly the case, you just have to do a bit of filtering - go with the suggestions of those that mostly use their cars in a similar way to you. If your heavily into track days, and almost no road use, pick the oil recommended by someone who practically lives at the circuit. Likewise, if you like to just tour, and are asking about brake pads, go with the suggestion of someone who like to tour, too. and so forth. It really helps make sense of the diversity of the answers you get, when you factor in how those owners drive/use their Westfields. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Oh, and a bit of a weird one, but don't think just because the car may only do a few k a year, that things like changing coolant and brake fluid etc every two or three years doesn't matter. Both these fluids are still deteriorating over time whether the car is driven or not. Also, check your fuel hoses, as it's new to you. The increased ethanol in modern fuels is problematic for older hose materials/specifications. This is easily replaced with modern ethanol safe hose, but something to check 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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