jaykay42 Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 Hi all! Before going for the full blown track day, I would like to spend a day on the skid pan. Ideally, of course, with my own Westie to learn to get the most out of my car in a safe and controlled environment. This sort of thing is tricky since I live tucked away in North Devon. The (older) reviews of Castle Combe I find on the web aren't too complimentary and Exeter Westpoint doesn't appear to offer such training any longer. Thruxton, I found does - but it's a fair old trip for me. So, before committing I'd like to ask the club members: - where / who with can you folks recommend - is it advisable to use my own car (risk of damage + how much wear to tyres?) - anything else I should consider (I wouldn't expect this here, but just to say please spare me any "roundabout in the wet" antics. I am looking for tuition, not GoPro/YouTube footage.) Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euan Hoosearmy Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 Did Castle Coombe skid pan about four years ago and had a really good experience. All training was in their cars, an E36 BMW and Ford Focus so you could learn the impact of RWD vs FWD. They cover the pan in some super slippy liquid. If reviews are saying the cars are beat-up old sheds, then that's true, but they're good enough for the speeds you'll do on the pan before losing traction/control. Deeper question - do you want/need skid pan training which is more about how to keep control in adverse conditions albeit at low speeds or do you really need a drift/performance driving day so you learn to handle putting down "too much" power in a good grip situation. I've not done the latter training but I'm thinking the skills required are slightly different and the speeds that things happen is definitely going to be different. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaykay42 Posted September 22, 2022 Author Share Posted September 22, 2022 Thank you for your swift response! Good question you're posing! I don't know the answer. I was under the impression that learning to control a drift, albeit at low speeds, is the next/first crucial step in mastering a track car, while also giving you confidence on the road if things go unexpectedly wrong: too optimistic entry speed to an unknown and tightening corner, unexpected road conditions around a corner etc. Yes, I'd be more than happy to skip the beaten up FWD experience on fairy liquid and go straight to performance driving if that's advisable. What route do other Westfield drivers recommend, given the aim I have in mind and described above? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 I can thoroughly recommend Don Palmer- I did a full day 'wetter, the better' at MIRA in 2000. I don't think they let the public in any more, but it looks like he's got other venues. http://www.donpalmer.co.uk/press/driving-ambition.html Money spent on driver training is always much better value than go faster parts! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaykay42 Posted September 22, 2022 Author Share Posted September 22, 2022 Thank you, Ian. Yes, that's the sort of thing. Contacted them - definitely neither cheap, nor "local" - but unless I hear better alternatives that's the one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Is Don still active? As he was probably in his fifties when I saw him last circa 20 yrs ago. His YouTube material hasn't been updated for a long while either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaykay42 Posted September 23, 2022 Author Share Posted September 23, 2022 Well, the website seemed up to date and I got a response to filling in their webform... But who's doing the training, I'm not sure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 I've done both skid pan training in the hydraulic exo-skeleton cars. (They can control not just which end lets go, but the degree, and also even drill down to individual wheels), and the Westfield based drift courses. I'd say the two are completely different disciplines really, and it depends what you're looking for. The skid pan course was superb, really, really good at teaching you how to recover from, as quickly and safely as possible, the various types of front, rear, or total slides. The drift courses on the other hand was almost about throwing that out of the window, and concerned more with provoking, holding and controlling slides. I know the first time I did the drift school, poor Russ from WSC Ltd was both amused and frustrated by the previous skid control stuff I'd done, as I was reflexively steering out of the slides I was supposed to be doing! Took me a little while to adjust my head into holding the slides! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 Oh and the old WSC Ltd drift days were really, really good. If the "new" Westfield starts doing them, I'll be back! (Think I've done three now!) You definitely don't use your own car for these! They used to use a pair of specially prepared cars. Both had Quaife gearboxes with long first gears, so you'd pretty much do everything in first, with no need to worry about gear changes. They then used nice grippy semi-slick tyres on the fronts, with van tyres on the rear, inflated to the max - somewhere around 50 psi from memory. It meant the cars would drift really simply and safely at low speed, so you could learn to steer and modulate the go pedal with minimum risk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaykay42 Posted September 27, 2022 Author Share Posted September 27, 2022 2 hours ago, Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman said: Oh and the old WSC Ltd drift days were really, really good. If the "new" Westfield starts doing them, I'll be back! (Think I've done three now!) You definitely don't use your own car for these! They used to use a pair of specially prepared cars. Both had Quaife gearboxes with long first gears, so you'd pretty much do everything in first, with no need to worry about gear changes. They then used nice grippy semi-slick tyres on the fronts, with van tyres on the rear, inflated to the max - somewhere around 50 psi from memory. It meant the cars would drift really simply and safely at low speed, so you could learn to steer and modulate the go pedal with minimum risk. Now that sounds even better. I'll keep an eye out for those! Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SootySport Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 Hi Jens. Castle Combe is ok on any event as long as it does not include the words "Action Day". These are also car shows where they have single session track time and when the carnage starts. so avoid them. Normal open pit days are ok and as safe as any other track. If they have slippy slidey training days they'll be ok as well. There are trackdays at Perranporth Airfield which is a short circuit and not much to hit except tyres and cones. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaykay42 Posted September 29, 2022 Author Share Posted September 29, 2022 2 hours ago, SootySport said: Hi Jens. Castle Combe is ok on any event as long as it does not include the words "Action Day". These are also car shows where they have single session track time and when the carnage starts. so avoid them. Normal open pit days are ok and as safe as any other track. If they have slippy slidey training days they'll be ok as well. There are trackdays at Perranporth Airfield which is a short circuit and not much to hit except tyres and cones. Hi Bernie That's great, thank you. What about tuition though? Thinking about this and the variety of answers: I want to experience the car in a way I can't on the road. Knowing myself, without tuition I probably don't push enough on a track day and would require many of those to get to level where even half a day of teaching could get me much, much quicker & safer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAFKARM Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 I'd just do a trackday with tuition tbh, even going as far as to hire a dedicated instructor for the day. Skidpans are great fun, but the translation into how to manage grip when the rear steps out at 100mpg round Druids is pretty limited. Somewhere like Blyton or Bedford would allow you to feel the car and get used to the limits of grip in a reasonably safe environment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, TAFKARM said: I'd just do a trackday with tuition tbh, even going as far as to hire a dedicated instructor for the day. Skidpans are great fun, but the translation into how to manage grip when the rear steps out at 100mpg round Druids is pretty limited. I thought it was just @Kingster that was aiming for such economy on track 😉 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SootySport Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Most trackday organisers have tuition if you ask them, book before or on the day. Even if they don't, you'd soon get used to track driving, start of slow and increase your speed during the day. I would assume skid pan experience would give tuition as part of the day. MSE trackdays are down your way so checkout their website for what they do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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