UK's first electric vehicle battery recyling plant?

[Kit Car Electronics]

Nevertheless, EU7 emission regulations by 2026 are so strict that manufacturers will be forced to stop offering pure ICE cars. 

 

In fact, new car buyers have already made the mental switch - diesel car sales have died completely and demand for anything with a plug is hugely outstripping supply. 

 

Used cars remain viable beyond 15 years of age, so many people can continue to run around with conventional petrol and diesel engines for a long time yet - but not new ones. 

 

 

[corsechris]

Same old warcries as ever whenever EV gets discussed anywhere.

 

“The grid can’t cope”. National Grid don’t agree with that assessment. It WILL need investment, but that is happening. Just recently rights for about 25GW of potential wind capacity was sold in Scotland to a variety of buyers. Even if only half that gets built, that’s not nothing. Anything to reduce our reliance on foreign gas is good news imo. We won’t be switching to 100% EV any time soon, if ever actually, but say we did, we’d need around a 50% increase in generation capacity to achieve that. A lot, but far from impossible. 

 

“The grid will melt when everyone plugs in at the same time”.   All new chargers have to be ‘smart’ meaning they can be managed remotely. Grid capacity will get shared out if/when needed, and after the first rush of paranoia is over, it’s unlikely the average user is going to charge every time they park in the same way that most if us don’t fill our fuel tanks every time we pass a garage. That said, there are certainly issues that need resolving, not least with the many looped consumers, but the problem is always overstated. A typical home EV charger maxes out at 7.2kW, less than an electric shower. 

 

Not that we burn much these days, but a coal fired power station charging cars is still less bad for the environment than burning petrol in them. Hard to find figures, but overall efficiency of coal to car is roughly 30%, petrol car probably broadly similar but wit no allowance for the petrol production in that. Carbon capture at a power station is plausible, not so much at a tailpipe.

 

Endless arguments for and against, but they all come down to one thing, will. If the will to clean up exists, it’ll happen. I’ve no illusion about who pays for it though nor about who will get rich from it, but that’s an entirely different topic and FWIW, I’d rather my money went to someone profiting from green tech than fossil fuels. 

[Steve (sdh2903)]

1 hour ago, Kit Car Electronics said:

demand for anything with a plug is hugely outstripping supply. 

 

Is that actually the case? Or is it because manufacturers have massively prioritised ev production and delivery during the semiconductor shortage? 

 

I think the tide is turning on infrastructure the petrol station near work is currently having a massive overhaul to become a charging hub with about 15 charge points. All looks impressive. 

[Kit Car Electronics]

39 minutes ago, Steve (sdh2903) said:

 

Is that actually the case? Or is it because manufacturers have massively prioritised ev production and delivery during the semiconductor shortage? 

 

I think the tide is turning on infrastructure the petrol station near work is currently having a massive overhaul to become a charging hub with about 15 charge points. All looks impressive. 

It's actually the case, yes. BIK tax rates, lease and ownership costs are a huge incentive amongst new car buyers. 

[Steve (sdh2903)]

I only ask as a couple of friends have had new cars on order for what seems like a lifetime. Yet the same model of car but the EV/hybrid option that was launched later have been readily available much quicker or even in some cases in stock.

 

So if you go into a dealer and are offered an ev/hybrid with a 4 to 8 week wait or an ICE car with a 6 to 9 month lead time I'd bet most would plump for the easier option. Same with leases which I tend to follow the trends of. Lease rates drop with availability. There's minimal available stock at present of ICE cars so prices are high. Artificially making evs look "cheap"

 

So this has to be inflating the "demand"? 

 

1 hour ago, Kit Car Electronics said:

BIK tax rates, lease and ownership costs are a huge incentive amongst new car buyers

 

Can't argue with that. Infact we are seriously considering an EV for the wife if her potential job move comes off. But the cynic in me suggests that these preferential tax breaks are surely going to come to end? Surely hmrc can't afford to lose all these taxes (and fuel duty) forever?

[corsechris]

It’s not at all cynical to expect the incentives to disappear, it’s simply realistic. They are about the only tool that works to steer behaviours. Not forgetting the stick that always accompanies the carrot of course.

[Kit Car Electronics]

3 hours ago, Steve (sdh2903) said:

So if you go into a dealer and are offered an ev/hybrid with a 4 to 8 week wait or an ICE car with a 6 to 9 month lead time I'd bet most would plump for the easier option. Same with leases which I tend to follow the trends of. Lease rates drop with availability. There's minimal available stock at present of ICE cars so prices are high. Artificially making evs look "cheap"

 

So this has to be inflating the "demand"? 

I don't think "demand" is quite so easily inflated, but you're right that with the semiconductor crisis production of EV and PHEV are prioritised - corporate EU fines for average CO2 production make it rather unappealing to build proportionally too many ICE vehicles. What is interesting is how little push many people now need to tip over to EV as a second or even main family car. 

[stephenh]

I can't see the semi-conductor shortage being relevant to the switch to EVs and PHEVs, because unless I'm very much mistaken these need ecus to control the various functions which we are becoming used to on modern cars such as automatic lights, windscreen whipers etc. Or am I mistaken? It wouldn't be the first time!

[Steve (sdh2903)]

55 minutes ago, stephenh said:

I can't see the semi-conductor shortage being relevant to the switch to EVs and PHEVs, because unless I'm very much mistaken these need ecus to control the various functions which we are becoming used to on modern cars such as automatic lights, windscreen whipers etc. Or am I mistaken? It wouldn't be the first time!

 

Yes they do (probably more so). What I was getting at was that the manufacturers are prioritising the use of the semi conductors on EVs and hybrids rather than on ICE cars. That's why there's been such a shortage of new stock ice cars, less of a shortage of EVs. If you read the stats on new car registrations the numbers are down, but evs are up.

 

5 hours ago, Kit Car Electronics said:

What is interesting is how little push many people now need to tip over to EV as a second or even main family car. 

 

But how many average, non car enthusiasts really care what the powertrain is?

[Kit Car Electronics]

They need even more semiconductors typically, but they're also worth prioritising for build due to the (typically higher) sales margins, the desire to build a large market presence and to bring down corporate average CO2 numbers.

 

For example, Tesla made a profit in 2021 due to Bitcoin investment and the sale of emission credits to other ICE car companies, not from the sale of their cars directly. Other OEMs can avoid the need to pay fines, or to buy these credits (or they can even sell their own) if they have a large EV contribution to their own corporate CO2 targets. It's not as simple as just building a nice car that people want to buy anymore.