VED exemption for old cars now rolling again?

[Lyonspride]

It was and then it wasn't, but now i'm hearing it is again......... 40 years rolling?

My Westfield V5 document says first registered in 1980, as it is pre-SVA and was registered the "old fashioned way" in the mid 90's, does that make it exempt? does anyone know?

[Richard (OldStager)]

I did a load of research for a mate who has a V8 engined Spitfire, which was reg in 1980 on a W plate. He applied for 'Historic' status , but according to the Gov websites on this subject, his car should not be exempt from an MOT. Due to it being significantly modified in the last 30 years ( he fitted the V8 around the late 90's), but despite their own rules , he was granted both tax exempt and MOT exempt - he would have got the tax but the MOT bit should not have been accepted, he has since said he will still get one each year anyway.

I think whoever processed his application wasn't up to speed with their departments rules.

 

As far as a Westy goes, from the way I read the Gov websites, the rolling bit is indeed active again, I think we are up to 1981 now?. However all you will get is an exemption on the tax, a kitcar is classed by the Gov as being a modified vehicle and will still need to be presented for an MOT every year... Quite honestly I disagree with all the no MOT lark, I find it reassuring to have a second pair of eyes look over my car.

 

You say yours was first reg in 1980, then go on to say it was reg the old fashioned way in the mid 90's , which is it.  Whatever your V5 states as first registered to be used on the road is the date they will use to determine if your car qualifies. For me I have some time to wait before the 40 year rolling scheme gets to 1994 ( if it ever does !!) but if it does I know I will only get the zero road tax and MOT needs doing as always - that is as long as they don't change all the rules again.... There are also rules for cars on a Q plate, if your is one of them.

[CosKev]

2 hours ago, Lyonspride said:

40 years rolling?

 

Yeah it has been since 2015👍

 

1 hour ago, OldStager said:

he was granted both tax exempt and MOT exemp

 

There is only one type of Historic status,that gives you both tax and MOT exemption if applicable. 

It's down to the owner to decide if it needs a MOT or not👍

[Mark (smokey mow)]

3 hours ago, Lyonspride said:

My Westfield V5 document says first registered in 1980, as it is pre-SVA and was registered the "old fashioned way" in the mid 90's, does that make it exempt? does anyone know?

The link here explains everything you should need to know about re-registering the car in the historic tax class.

 

https://www.gov.uk/historic-vehicles

 

To be exempt from tax the car should be first registered before 1981. If your V5 says 1980 then it sounds like it was incorrectly registered at the time if the car was built in the 1990’s.
 

depending on who checks your application at the DVLA and how good their records are I’d expect an application for a Westfield to be a bit of a red flag to them since the first kits weren’t sold by Chris Smith until 1985/86.

 

MoT exemption is separate to this and it is your responsibility to ensure you meet the relevant criteria. IIRC kit cars generally can’t be exempt unless they are over 40 years old and not substantially modified from this in the last 30years.

 

[Richard (OldStager)]

4 minutes ago, Mark (smokey mow) said:

The link here explains everything you should need to know about re-registering the car in the historic tax class.

 

https://www.gov.uk/historic-vehicles

 

To be exempt from tax the car should be first registered before 1981. If your V5 says 1980 then it sounds like it was incorrectly registered at the time if the car was built in the 1990’s.
 

depending on who checks your application at the DVLA and how good their records are I’d expect an application for a Westfield to be a bit of a red flag to them since the first kits weren’t sold by Chris Smith until 1985/86.

 

MoT exemption is separate to this and it is your responsibility to ensure you meet the relevant criteria. IIRC kit cars generally can’t be exempt unless they are over 40 years old and not substantially modified from this in the last 30years.

 

That's how I read the rules as well. I hadn't spotted the cars being sold till 85/86 bit however, it must be the case then that @Lyonspride has an age related plate from the donor car but not wasn't registered for the road until 1994 ( according to his user details) if this is the case then as far as I read the rules it would not be accepted, having said that neither should have my mates car with his V8 install.

[Mark (smokey mow)]

2 hours ago, OldStager said:

That's how I read the rules as well. I hadn't spotted the cars being sold till 85/86 bit however, it must be the case then that @Lyonspride has an age related plate from the donor car but not wasn't registered for the road until 1994 ( according to his user details) if this is the case then as far as I read the rules it would not be accepted, having said that neither should have my mates car with his V8 install.

Assuming it’s the same car Lyonspride’s car appears to have a very complicated history with the DVLA and it’s registration.

 

 

[Richard (OldStager)]

Ah yes it has hasn't it. Not seen that thread before.

I really can't see the car qualifying, but I guess @Lyonspride could give it a go, as long as this does not stir up the hornets nest. At least he could create a precedent for future owners with age related plates and then registered years later.

 

@Lyonspride just think about this before you send any forms off, it may cause further issues down the line for you.

[Mark (smokey mow)]

21 minutes ago, OldStager said:

 

@Lyonspride just think about this before you send any forms off, it may cause further issues down the line for you.

I’d agree with that.

[Lyonspride]

The V5 states date of first registration 1980, the VIN is now correct, I can't remember if the previous VIN was the donor car or a VIN issued by the DVLA, but which was never attached to the vehicle, but it doesn't matter now, it's sorted.

From the https://www.gov.uk/historic-vehicles
 

Quote

"If you do not know when your vehicle was built, but it was registered before 8 January 1981, you do not need to pay vehicle tax from 1 April 2021."

Whilst the section above that states
 

Quote

 

"You do not need to get an MOT if:

• the vehicle was built or first registered more than 40 years ago
• no ‘substantial changes’ have been made to the vehicle in the last 30 years, for example replacing the chassis, body, axles or engine to change the way the vehicle works"

 

• 
  So it looks like the VED exemption doesn't have the restriction on "substantial changes", whilst the MOT does.

[Richard (OldStager)]

5 minutes ago, Lyonspride said:

 

• 
  So it looks like the VED exemption doesn't have the restriction on "substantial changes", whilst the MOT does.

Correct, and if you read the fine details, the stuff I read said any kitcar or a  production car on a Q plate will never be entitled to zero MOT status. The issue you have is what your V5 says - as Mark pointed out Westfield didn't sell any cars until the mid 80's , so yours having a 1980 plate may stir up all the issues you had the other year again.

 

Tread very carefully.

[Mark (smokey mow)]

16 minutes ago, Lyonspride said:

So it looks like the VED exemption doesn't have the restriction on "substantial changes", whilst the MOT does.

That’s correct.

 

the issue for you is that whilst your V5 may state that your car was built in 1980 it wasn’t. It was built in 1993 using parts from another car that was built in 1980 and now no longer exists. 
 

you can take your chances and try your luck with the DVLA for historic status based on the fact that it’s been incorrectly registered by them in the past with the wrong date but in reality it’s not going to be tax exempt for another 13years. 

[CosKev]

Just take the V5 into the Post Office with the required form and try your luck👍

 

The chances of them taking any notice of when the first Westfield was produced is virtually non-existent from my dealings with DVLA!

 

Don't post the V5 to them,this causes issues,do as it says about changing to Historic status and go to a Post Office that deals with VED👍

[Lyonspride]

8 minutes ago, Mark (smokey mow) said:

That’s correct.

 

the issue for you is that whilst your V5 may state that your carcass built in 1980 it wasn’t. It was built in 1993 using parts from another car that was built in 1980 and now no longer exists. 
 

you can take your chances and try your luck with the DVLA for historic status based on the fact that it’s been incorrectly registered by them with the wrong date but in reality it’s not going to be tax exempt for another 13years.

Not to be picky but it doesn't say it was built in 1980, it says it was registered in 1980, and the exemption for VED mentions build date OR reg date (and I don't know the exact build date), and this is why I posted this, I suppose I was wondering if anyone else had been there.
I will admit it seems a little ridiculous, because I could literally change everything about the car, even build it into a new chassis/body, and it'd be bit of a triggers broom, but still be a 1980 car.
 

[Mark (smokey mow)]

11 hours ago, Lyonspride said:

Not to be picky but it doesn't say it was built in 1980, it says it was registered in 1980, and the exemption for VED doesn't mention build date, and this is why I posted this, I suppose I was wondering if anyone else had been there.
I will admit it seems a little ridiculous, because I could literally change everything about the car, even build it into a new chassis/body, and it'd be bit of a triggers broom, but still be a 1980 car.
 

Ok, it’s semantics but however you call it the Westfield you are driving now was not first registered 1980.

 

at best you could apply and they’ll grant you historic status without questioning it.....

 

at worst alarm bells will ring, they’ll call you in for a VIC check, and based on the fact that the date of first registration is questionable since Westfield didn’t start making cars till 1986 you may end up on a Q.

 

as @OldStager said, tread very carefully.

 

[Richard (OldStager)]

2 minutes ago, Lyonspride said:

 I suppose I was wondering if anyone else had been there.

 

As for Westys no, because they were not made in 1980. I admit it does seem to be an incorrectly registered date on your V5, not your fault, it's theirs but I doubt they would rush to put that right and even if they did that would leave you in the position I am, waiting for another 13 years.