JonnyBoy Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 so, whats quickest round your average race track? westfield or bike? i'm thinking of levelling the playing field with identical power to weight and the drivers being of an equal sandard on their respective machines. - i'm sure there are many other variables but i'm ignoring them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 A few of the factors: What the circuit is like - bikes hate slow'ish corners as they can't turn in but love medium to high speed ones Are the straights shorter enough not to be hitting the aerodynamic brick effect of the Westfield? How nimble versus powerful is the bike How crap is the driver and the rider, do they both have equal experience of the circuit? Is it wet conditions (recommended) Up to a 90/100mph I have found I can keep up with the non-tricked up <600cc bikes (in the old 180bhp westy) ok but after that waved good bye as they went off in the distance...I will never know if they were really putting all the power down though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbin Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I've got an old Top Gear video with Jason Plato in a Carrera 4 beating some top rider (sorry can't remember who) around a circuit on an R1...... can't remember which circuit either, but I have an idea it was Thruxton...... Makes good viewing. Theory is that so long as there's enough corners and the straights aren't that long, then the car will win...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhawkins Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 It was Thruxton. I would tend to agree, anything with enough corners would mean the car would win most of the time (I think). Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Gratton Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Now theres an interesting question. Lets take a Suzuki Hayabusa GSX1300R (or RZ) In standard trim the bike makes 175ps (so thats about 172bhp). It weighs 215kg without the rider. based upon power/weight (metric ton) that equates to equation (I think) bhp/(metric)ton = 1000kg / weight(kg) * power(bhp) For the busa that would be: (1000 / 215) * 172 = 800bhp/ton Now our XTR² has a standard hayabusa engine and weighs in at 481kg wet (all fuilds and a full tank of gas - but no driver) and thats an accurate weight from calibrated cornerscales not bull$#!+ That gives us (1000 / 481) * 172 = 358bhp/ton A mile apart I'm sure you will agree. In order for our car to match the bike in bhp/ton the car would need 385bhp Maybe I've got all this wrong - I'm eating at the moment LOL. Do you agree that is the correct calc for quoted bhp/ton David Birch's XTR² has a turbocharged hayabusa engine which is spec'd to give 385bhp at the rear wheels (not the crank or sprocket) - I wonder how that will compare to a bike in a straight line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhawkins Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 The original poster said: i'm thinking of levelling the playing field with identical power to weight and the drivers being of an equal sandard on their respective machines. - i'm sure there are many other variables but i'm ignoring them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 On any circuit it will be a mix of maximum attainable speed and the amount of g force that can be generated. So, even if a westy is twice the weight, it probably has two to four times the available grip and can generate considerably more g force through corners. I think on most uk circuits the car would win over a production road bike except for places like Silverstone and the Brands GP circuit, provided it had in the region of 200 bhp + Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick M Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 The car has a *massive* advantage when it comes to braking and cornering, but loses out on pure acceleration because the power to weight ratio is lower than the bike. In real terms, bikes hate the twisty stuff but do a horizon job when the road straightens out and any bends become fast and flowing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 My mate Ghostrider reckons he'd never have got from Stockholm to Uppsala in under 15 minutes in a car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick M Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Yeah, but that's coz a) bike riders are loonies and b) they cheat and nip in between cars much easier than, well, cars do ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasamdy Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 A good comparison for this (from a car point of view anyway) is the Nurburgring. Lap record for a car 6m11s for the long circuit (1983) Lap record for a bike 7m49s (1990) This is for 20km (14 ish miles) Makes you think doesn't it? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris sideways Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I think for the Brands short circuit the outright lap record is about 35 seconds "ish" which was done by a F1 car there last year in the Euro Boss series,the fastest super bikes go round in about 48 seconds I believe so that's a huge difference in only 1.2 miles.I know it's not quite like for like but it is the fastest car against the fastest bike.Also I spoke to a marshal there at the weekend and he said that when the Champ cars go there in May they will be lapping in just under 30 seconds not sure if I believe that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Usable pwr/weight is probably more relevant. Based on being on the back of my mates TL1000, I doubt you could use all of the pwr avalable until well into 3rd gear. Carl I'm sure some nutter will now come along and confirm he can open his bussa full in 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasamdy Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Most of the current superbikes can be held full throttle in first and up through the gears but you need to be hung right over the front to avoid the rather nasty top yoke in the visor syndrome closely followed by fuel tank in nadswhich makes you look like this for a while You've got to also bear in mind that most bikes will do well past 75mph in first alone which tames (relatively) to outright shove in the If they were geared for 40-50 in first most people would end up on their backs with the bike riding them Brands Indy circuit is a wierd one because there isn't actually a straight for the entire length of the circuit Cheers Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTR2Turbo Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I think sensible to include a notional driver when making power / weight comparisons. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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