Steve (sdh2903) Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Last weekend a neighbour came and asked me to have a look at his a3 after he pranged a kerb with his rear wheel. Nothing obvious apart from a mullered alloy that I could see but the rear wheel did sound a bit rough when spinning it. Anyway he took it to audi main dealer (I did suggest an indy would be cheaper) He ended up needing a new rear hub and bearing. 1200 quid!! Oh and if he wants a new wheel it's another 830 as the tyre was damaged aswell (it wasn't just a small maybe 1" section of the kerb protector had been shaved off, the sidewall was untouched due to the protruding spokes) He genuinely seemed pleased with that! I nearly fell over. 1200 quid for a rear hub and bearing for a base model 1.0 small family hatch. The car world's gone mad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 I once changed the rear wheel bearing on an E48 BMW five series. Followed the workshop manual exactly, good quality parts etc. All good, bearing noise gone. Sometime after, it developed a persistent ABS fault that would not go away. I had a really good independent specialist garage whose owner was a real BMW guru, (several dealers used him for high level trouble shooting.) As the fault had to be sorted come MOT time, it went to him as usual, I won't bore you with all the live telemetry back to the BMW factory details. But suffice it to say, he traced it back to the wheel bearing swap. He actually stopped charging me labour after a certain point, but even so with a second new bearing and a few other small bits, that MOT cost me around £1800 in the end! From an independant with half the dealer labour rate. Why, because BMW did not detail the full bearing swap service procedure in the manuals released to the public. They did teach the technicians what to do though. It's a long time now, so I don't recall the detail 100% but I'm sure it was something to do with shimming and adjusting the ABS sensor position after the bearing swap, or not only will they not read correctly, but they can at worst, (which is what I had) damage the very faint dimpling of the ABS stator ring, which was part of the bearing assembly. Hence I needed a new bearing, sensor etc. as well as set up. I'm sure BMW aren't the only ones to not release full info, but manage it in sneaky ways like this. (I think the slightly clandestine side of it comes from a US ruling that requires workshop manuals as supplied to dealers to be available for purchase to anyone. It's just meant that some manufacturers don't necessarily fully detail the procedures anymore, but instead use other measures like accredited technician training, I guess, to make sure service personnel at dealers know what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen_I Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary said: (I think the slightly clandestine side of it comes from a US ruling that requires workshop manuals as supplied to dealers to be available for purchase to anyone. It's just meant that some manufacturers don't necessarily fully detail the procedures anymore, but instead use other measures like accredited technician training, I guess, to make sure service personnel at dealers know what to do. It was all part of 'Block exemption' which also allowed warranty to be upheld if you took your vehicle to a non franchised independent (so long as they are VAT registered), and the workshop manuals should be readily available for purchase (this should be at a sensible price), but the manufacturers weren't happy and still managed to make it very difficult to go to a independent garage, some manufacturers will only allow the service history to be recorded online via their system as service books are becoming a thing of the past, they will say its to reduce chance of fraudulent servicing but then the average independent can't always afford to start investing in neccessary equipment to overcome this. My job is a Automotive Technical Author at Autodata (previously I was a technician in the workshop, with various manufacturers) and we have noticed over the past few years the info from some manufacturers seems to be decreasing for certain subjects like fault trouble codes and other diagnostic info as this would now readily be available on the workshop diagnostic equipment, so when the vehicle is plugged in you will get a step by step diagnostic procedure direct from the manufacturer which would normally be chassis number specific. Whilst I am not really defending dealers I do find the servicing costs are more transparent and can be quite competitive, my wife's 330D went in for a service awhile ago and I was pleasantly surprised at the cost and the aircon needed a regas which was £70. Prior to that her C-Class was a fraction cheaper to service than the Nissan Puke she had before that. That said though, we had a Subaru Legacy and I knew the service manager at the time so took it for its service as it was mates rates. Whilst dropping it off one Saturday morning (approx 14yrs ago now) there was a lady in front collecting her Impreza STi, her bill was £1200 for a service, adjust handbrake and heatshield. I personally would've adjusted the handbrake as part of the service and the heatshield would've just been tweaked and pushed away from the exhaust. She seemed absolutely fine with this and left with a smile on her face..... £1200 for hub and bearing does seem to be taking the p*@# somewhat, a lot of bearings are not available on its own and will come already pressed into the hub, but if anything the parts are more expensive but with reduced labour costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve (sdh2903) Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Glen_I said: £1200 for hub and bearing does seem to be taking the p*@# somewhat, a lot of bearings are not available on its own and will come already pressed into the hub, but if anything the parts are more expensive but with reduced labour costs. I did have a look today online and it is a combined hub and bearing unit. An skf one from ecp is 90 quid. Even if you quadruple that for an oe one plus 2 hours labour I would still only expect around 6-700 quid all in. The only thing I wondered if it needed a new upright and that's why it was so eye watering, but he's adament it was just a hub and bearing. There's definitly an audi tax within vag. Our last 3 lease cars have been a golf gti, an a4 1.4 and a Leon cupra. All were on long life service schedules so I was liable for 1 main dealer service. Golf was £209, Leon was £220 audi was quoted at £479 for an oil and filter service and inspection. Exactly the same service schedule as the other 2. Luckily they were running a price match with local indys and got it done for less than 200 quid in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR.C Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Why would you buy a Porsche, then take it to kwik fit for a service. Why would you buy an Audi then bob it to joe's garage for a brake overhaul. Easy because..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen_I Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 18 minutes ago, Steve (sdh2903) said: There's definitly an audi tax within vag. Our last 3 lease cars have been a golf gti, an a4 1.4 and a Leon cupra. All were on long life service schedules so I was liable for 1 main dealer service. Golf was £209, Leon was £220 audi was quoted at £479 for an oil and filter service and inspection. The 330D and the C-Class I referred to earlier that belonged to my wife also cost the same as your Seat and Golf to service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960dave Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 26 minutes ago, Steve (sdh2903) said: I did have a look today online and it is a combined hub and bearing unit. An skf one from ecp is 90 quid. Even if you quadruple that for an oe one plus 2 hours labour I would still only expect around 6-700 quid all in. The only thing I wondered if it needed a new upright and that's why it was so eye watering, but he's adament it was just a hub and bearing. There's definitly an audi tax within vag. Our last 3 lease cars have been a golf gti, an a4 1.4 and a Leon cupra. All were on long life service schedules so I was liable for 1 main dealer service. Golf was £209, Leon was £220 audi was quoted at £479 for an oil and filter service and inspection. Exactly the same service schedule as the other 2. Luckily they were running a price match with local indys and got it done for less than 200 quid in the end. Don't forget all new bolts as they are stretch bolts and a 4 wheel alignment that is required as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 One of my lads just lost his Audi wheel nut key. Decent one £15 off ebay; dealer price £57 + vat. Big mark up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim RS Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 I had a fault code come up on a VW and took it to the local dealer, they quoted £640 plus vat to put it on their computer to check the fault. I noticed that the headlight was not working fully so took it in to a local independent, they changed the Xenon unit(not cheap) and all fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen_I Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 That's not on is it..... Every dealership I have worked in, we would have a set price to read off a diagnostic code, this would normally be between .3 to .5 hrs labour. Another car my wife had was a mk7 Golf GTDi, it was the worse car she has ever had as a lease car and to makes things worse the dealership was also awful. It used to wind me up as I used to work across the road from them at another dealership so I can generally see through the nonsense and it was one excuse after another when they couldn't rectify the various faults this car had. It even got to the point where I would have to print off the Tech Bulletins for several known faults from erWin which is VAG's workshop electronic manual for everything (which due to my job I have access to every mainstream manufacturers workshop manuals) and carefully hand it to them to get these faults rectified. But not every dealership is bad.....I have worked at some great ones with like minded technicians and service advisors/managers who genuinely want to provide a good honest service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim RS Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 My wife was co-director of our company and used to do all the purchasing for vans and cars but she would not take any vehicle in for repair as in her own words women have "rip me off" written on them when it comes to servicing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen_I Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 I always remember a story a good friend of mine who was Master Tech at BMW about a car that had engine issues, the customer 'a woman' insisted on speaking to the technician personally, so when the service advisor brought her into the workshop to meet John, the service advisor already started to speak down to her and John said he had already noticed she had said a couple of things that clearly showed she had a understanding but the service advisor still kept waffling on until he said something along the lines of 'we don't expect you to understand' at this point she let rip and said 'shall I explain to you how this works' it came to light she was a engineer at somewhere like Ricardo engineering! John said he looked at the service advisor and just said don't assume everyone is a stupid as you next time! 🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew O Byrne White - Ireland AO Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 Ah yeah, main dealer fun and games. I remember bringing my old Subaru to a dealer a few years back to give it a major service and a checkup. They had a service schedule that was minor, medium, minor, major, and repeat. The problem was the way the dealership had their records was that it listed the first 10 services. Mine was due on number 12, so the dealer was trying to tell me it only needed a medium service, and absolutely couldn't wrap their head around the fact that the service intervals repeated in cycles of 4, not 10. No idea how many non technically minded Subaru owners ended up having their cars incorrectly maintained by that franchise. Other than charging a fortune, they also dented my door and refused to fix it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen_I Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 It doesn't bode well, unfortunately I think it goes wrong as the technicians are heavily bonus based. I was fortunate as the last couple of years before I left the workshop I had persuaded the Dealer Principle to put me on salary and then pay me to do the stuff no one else wanted, like diagnostic warranty work (remember alot of manufacturers won't pay unless you actually replace something, no time given for diagnostic), and rattles etc. The final straw for me was when I got told I need to try and upsell more, another bloke had made some silly money that month as every car he serviced had lower suspension arms, anti-roll bar drop links, pads and disc....the easy money making stuff, but the Dealer Principle thought he was great because he bought the money in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve (sdh2903) Posted February 20, 2021 Author Share Posted February 20, 2021 I remember as a kid my dad bought a couple of new ford's. Nowt fancy an escort LX and then a mk1 mondeo. The dealer was a family owned Ford franchise and I remember the service was fantastic. I couldn't keep my eyes off the brand new just released escort cosworth in the showroom. The sales bloke encouraged me to get in and sit in it. My dad got his mondeo and then a week later the dealer phoned and asked could he nip back at the weekend. They'd arranged to take me out for a run in the cosworth demo car! That memory has stuck with me and was probably a very clever sales ploy as I've always been a huge fan of fast fords ever since. Sad now that most main dealers are all huge chains now operating on such tight margins that they have to fleece you on parts and servicing and a million insurance products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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