2nd check of calculations for a supporting beam

[Hemsley]

 

Hi all. Could anyone recommend a Structural Engineer to perform a 2nd check of calculations for a supporting beam?

 

It's for a 3m span with only a flat roof above 200 x 50 joists at 400 centres, diagram below.  A friend of mine who is a recently retired Chartered Building Surveyor (15 years with the National Trust) kindly produced calculations to European and British standards for a beam to support a flat roof above a wall which I will be removing.

 

 

 

I submitted the calculations (5 pages) and the Senior Building Control officer responsible for my case has said that because they don't know his work I will need to get a 2nd check of his calculations from a Structural Engineer. Although they could arrange this for me it will be in addition to the (large) fees I've already paid! He has been helpful and knowledgable, and this appears to be something he's obliged to ask for due to the Council's insurance 😞.

 

I've had a look around and it seems that I could get someone to complete the calculations online, but I'd rather find someone through recommendation. My pals detailed calculations show that the smallest universal beam is easily adequate in terms of strength, loading, shear, moment, buckling, deflection etc, so it should be a straight forward task for someone to check this over.

 

Frustrating to put it mildly. This nanny state we live in, enough said.

 

Any suggestions welcome!

[Mark (smokey mow)]

If you want to send them to me I can do a quick check and tell you if they’re right or wrong, but without PI insurance I can’t do anything that would appease the council.

 

FWIW I’m surprised they’re asking for an extra fee to check them. I would double check what the terms of their published fees are (which legally they must publish on their website) as unless they specifically state that you have to use a qualified structural engineer and have offered you a reduction in the building control fees for this then they cannot ask for extra money to then check them.

[Terry Everall]

The steel beam checks are easy but be careful you have considered the stability and wall thickness that the beam will be seated on. The beam calls just need bending moment, shear loads and deflection checking making sure you assess dead load and any live load on the roof due to snow, wind and maintenance etc

[Hemsley]

Thanks for your help Mark, I've sent you a PM with the calcs.

 

Also think you're onto a good point about why they could charge me additional fees for something which is surely already part of the service. I don't think they specified anywhere that I had to use a qualified structural engineer. I'll review the T's & C's and fees.

[Mole]

I may be wrong but when I did my extension etc..the BC guy checked any calls himself and said yes or no..he did not tell me to get two calcs..because it was up to him to say if he thought they were wrong

I definitely don't think you should have to pay extra...

 

[Terry Everall]

It is unusual to ask for simple calls like these to have a checker involved

[Mark (smokey mow)]

20 minutes ago, Mole said:

I may be wrong but when I did my extension etc..the BC guy checked any calls himself and said yes or no..he did not tell me to get two calcs..because it was up to him to say if he thought they were wrong

I definitely don't think you should have to pay extra...

 

How Building Control set their fees is governed by The Building (Local Authority Charges) Regulations 2010. 
 

These regulations require the council building control to publish their charges and operate on a cost neutral basis (Non profit). If authority has built onto their standard charges a discount for using a qualified engineer then they have legitimate reason to ask for an additional charge when calculations are received that  they need to get checked by a third party.  

As I’m sure many know I’m a local authority building control officer and for the 3 authorities I’ve worked for in the last 20years none have ever charged a supplementary charge for checking calculations but that’s not to say that others I haven’t worked for don’t. We build an allowance into all our charges that a small percentage of them may need to be sent for external checking.

for a simple job such as Hemsley’s we normally check these in house ourselves, hence my offer of a quick check. It helps I’m a Charted Engineer but my colleagues who aren’t still know how to do a basic check of a beam calculation.

[Hemsley]

My local authority has published an hourly fee and they provide a bespoke quote for each application. There was no breakdown with my fee, and perhaps I should have asked, but it was equivalent to 1 days effort which for my project I felt is reasonable. I'm not familiar with the current building standards and latest insulation products, and I'm getting some helpful guidance on how I can meet the standards, which in most cases they would not expect to spend time on.

 

As Mark has noted he can check the calculations himself, and if he was concerned about them I'm sure he would. This just seems to be a requirement of their insurance to manage risk, so either I need to find a way of providing some evidence of my pal's qualifications... or get a 2nd check from a professional with their own insurance.

[Hemsley]

16 hours ago, Terry Everall - WSCC Competition Secretary said:

The steel beam checks are easy but be careful you have considered the stability and wall thickness that the beam will be seated on. The beam calls just need bending moment, shear loads and deflection checking making sure you assess dead load and any live load on the roof due to snow, wind and maintenance etc

 

Hi Terry. I might have a problem with the wall on one side of the opening, which is built of stone. The edge of the new opening will be aligned with the edge of an old stone mullion window. I can't tell if the stonework is sound until I remove the mullion, but perhaps I will need to remove a bit more of the wall and build a new brick pillar. I assume I would need to key this into the original wall somehow, maybe with some ties.

 

The wall on the other side of the opening which forms part of our conservatory is new, but it's covered in render so I don't know what materials have been used yet. The quality of the building work is excellent however so I'm optimistic. I removed some stonework to check the line of the joists and it was incredibly tough!

[Jim RS]

Why not increase the size of the UJ to over engineer the situation, that is unless you have headroom issues, also I would use concrete bearer pads. I have supplied and installed hundreds of steel lintels and the cost difference to being over specified is minor and I've had no questions about my calculations.

[Hemsley]

Yes I'd be happy to use a deeper beam, the difference in cost is negligible and we have plenty of headroom. I will ask if that would make any difference, although I suspect this is just an insurance hoop the council have put in our way.   Even the smallest beam is well over the size needed.

[Terry Everall]

Pointless going for a bigger beam IMHO.The walls supporting the Universal Beam must be capable of taking the load from the bearing pad. Hence any cavity walls should be carefully considered and bonded to make a solid load bearing feature.