Westfield Eleven gearbox mount

[Mike Y]

I am a new member.

I have a 1984 Eleven which I am restoring and altering to suit my taste, Watts linkage rear end, Triumph Vitesse front uprights and bigger brakes. Various cockpit alterations to simulate a real Lotus XI more closely.

 

In the meantime, I'm putting together a new kit for a friend, leaving everything pretty much standard, Sprite engine and gearbox.

 

I have to say that the instructions concerning the modification to the standard Spridget gearbox mount is a little vague but offering it up into the correct location, measuring back from the engine mounts the bottom of the mount does not sit on the chassis plate but in front of it. I am awaiting an e-mail reply from Westfield on this subject but has anyone else encountered this?

 

I am an experienced car builder so the issue is not insurmountable but wondered about other's experience. 

[Gary Taylor]

Welcome, sorry I can’t help with the gearbox mount but there is an 11 build thread in the build diaries that may help.

why not start a build thread for both cars and we like pictures which also helps explain things

Any way good luck with both rebuild and build

[stephenh]

I think most, if not all, of us who have built a Westfield XI in recent years have opted for the Ford type 9 'box. Maybe the factory have as a result positioned the plate under where the type 9 rear mounting falls? It certainly lined up for me, but as I say, that was with the type 9 'box.

Personally, I found the gearing very low, even with the overdrive 5th. which the type 9 gave me and that was with the higher of the 2 generally available crown wheel and pinion sets.

[Mike Y]

Thanks for the response, I think Stephen you may be correct.

[Mike Y]

Hi Gary, I've built many racecars over the years so I will post photographs of my own car build with all the modified components. I want to retain the period 1950's look mechanically too.

 

[Gary Taylor]

2 hours ago, Mike Y said:

Hi Gary, I've built many racecars over the years so I will post photographs of my own car build with all the modified components. I want to retain the period 1950's look mechanically too.

 

I look forward to seeing your work and of your modifications, I really enjoy it when people put their own perspective on certain things

[Simon Marks - North Oxfordshire AO]

Like Stephen, my experience involved fitting a Type 9 five speed gearbox when I built my Eleven.  I had to file down the ends of my gearbox mount as it sat quite a way back but it bolted through the plate in the chassis and the prop met the axle correctly.

 

I have a 3.9:1 cwp and with the five speed, top gear equates to 22mph per 1,000 rpm.  3,500rpm is 77mph, so the car is happy in the fast lane of the local dual carriageways.  Fourth gear (which is the same as a Midget box) is more like 16mph per 1,000rpm so life would be a lot more frenetic - 77mph being over 4,500rpm and an A series engine is not a rev happy unit.

 

As the Type 9 is invisible when installed, plus does not need a gear lever with five speeds marked on the top, the much improved higher speed performance and all round usability made it an easy choice for me!

 

Good luck with whatever you choose to do and should you wish to ask anything, the Eleven builders on this forum will be more than happy to respond.

 

Simon

[Morris]

Hi Mike,

 

I'm mid way through an xi new build (with a build thread on this forum), and like the others who have replied, I'm also fitting the Type 9. The down side may be that the gear lever exits the tunnel a little too far rearwards for comfort for long armed folk(!). My engine is still in bits so I cannot comment further at the moment!

 

Would be good to see another build on the forum if you can?

 

Morris.

[Simon Marks - North Oxfordshire AO]

I identified the issue with the gearlever when I saw the Westfield supplied transmission tunnel top with the two holes in it (one for the BMC box and one for the Type 9.  I went to Paul at First Motion Transmissions in Baldock (01462 896685).  He shortened the rear extension on my gearbox so my gearlever comes up absolutely level with the steering wheel which I feel is ideal. 

 

Whilst the box was there, I had a rose jointed quick shift fitted, the short throw of which really suits the character of the car and a raised first gear makes it far more relevant in such a light sports car.

 

Simon

[Mike Y]

Thanks for your assistance all. Not mentioned in the manual but there is a separate mounting plate that bolts to the chassis to fit the Sprite box so all sorted.

I am happy to create a blog regards the two Elevens I am assembling/restoring, just haven't worked out how to navigate to the correct starting point if someone would like to guide me! 

[Gary Taylor]

Hi Mike, 

if you go to tech talk, then build diaries then click on start new topic you can start in there, looking forward to it 

[Mike Y]

I finally did suss that out but thank you, I'm not the best at this computer stuff, too old!

 

Have started with two posts.

[Mike Y]

This post is specific to the gearbox mount issues so posted here. The advantage, if one can call it that, for self isolation I've been in the garage today and fitted the engine and gearbox. Westfield's technical department did point me in the direction of the separate steel plate that bolts up under the chassis so I knew what to expect. I made a template of the underside of the modified standard "Spridget" gearbox mount and decided to sit the gearbox in, mark the plate, remove it, drill to the template and re-fit.

 

Bearing in mind I left a bigger clearance on the gearbox mount than the single reference in the manual to how the gearbox fits, it doesn't work. The gearbox mount on the left side hits the aluminium skin of the tunnel, there is insufficient clearance for the mount to sit between the lower tunnel tubes so wont sit on the plate, the starter motor cover on the bellhousing is wedged against the footwell vertical tube and when I sort all this, the oval casting on the left side of the gearbox will sit on the lower tunnel side tube so the mount still wont sit on the separate gearbox plate! Failing that it is perfect.

Firstly, I intend modifying the Spridget mount again giving clearance and removing the vertical face on the left side which on a Sprite bolts through the side of the tunnel. I'll need to weld in a plate to replace the lost strength. Next I'll cut more out of the bottom of the mount where the manual does not cover this correctly. These modifications will allow me to move the tail of the gearbox to the left and hopefully the starter motor cover will clear the footwell. Finally, I'll cut the oval casting on the side of the gearbox so the mount will sit down properly. I recall somewhere reading what that oval casting was for but cannot remember, anyone here know?

I guess Westfield will be closed so cannot ask them, it is slightly disappointing that being the Sprite gearbox was the original choice for these kits the fitment is not covered that well in the manual. The god news is this is all reference for when I restore my own car.

[Mike Y]

Spent the morning snagging my wrists in the tunnel trying to undo the gearbox mounts from the gearbox and then laying under the car trying to cut the left hand Morris Minor clutch mount from the case with a disc cutter. 

Singularly unimpressed with Westfield on this matter and particularly the lack of information in the manual. I expected the restoration of my car to be less than straightforward based on the modifications I wish to make but this car for my friend Nicolas was meant to be quite simple.

 

Having put the engine and gearbox in there are a number of issues which I have set out above. The gearbox mount, modified to the manual's instructions,  simply wont fit. The mount does not clear the steel plate welded to the chassis for the Type 9 gearbox in fact it sits on the edge of it so wont sit down onto the steel plate for the purpose. Even if it did then the Morris Minor clutch mount lug sits on the chassis rail.

 

i think the simplest solution is to re-make the engine mounts and pull the engine 20mm forward which will resolve the clearance issues as long as I manage to cut that lug off. Either I need a bigger disc cutter to complete the task or drop the engine and gearbox out again. Looks likely to be the latter.

[Mike Y]

Interestingly, checked the length of the shortened propshaft from my 1984 car, it's 40mm longer than the length the manual specifies for this kit.