F1 pit lane bust up.

[DonPeffers]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/7721841/esteban-ocon-slammed-as-an-embarrassment-for-terrible-f1-crash-with-max-verstappen-that-caused-pit-lane-fight/

"You can unlap yourself, but do it properly. You're not allowed to put the leader at risk at all. You don't do something that loses time for the other driver, and is taking a risk.

"Overtaking on the straight and you're in front is fine. But that looked like it was a battle for the lead" said Jacques Villeneuve.

At least Max didn't deck Ocon like Senna did to Irvine.

Surely once you've been lapped  the drag reduction system should NOT be available to catch and try to pass those a lap ahead.

[Andrew]

1 minute ago, DonPeffers said:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/7721841/esteban-ocon-slammed-as-an-embarrassment-for-terrible-f1-crash-with-max-verstappen-that-caused-pit-lane-fight/

"You can unlap yourself, but do it properly. You're not allowed to put the leader at risk at all. You don't do something that loses time for the other driver, and is taking a risk.

"Overtaking on the straight and you're in front is fine. But that looked like it was a battle for the lead" said Jacques Villeneuve.

At least Max didn't deck Ocon like Senna did to Irvine.

Surely once you've been lapped  the drag reduction system should NOT be available to catch and try to pass those a lap ahead.

Totally agree. I think there's a bit of history between the two "combatants" in the lower formulae    .. I wonder if Ocon would have pulled the same move if it had been Hamilton leading? 

[Rory's Dad]

Why didn't Max look in his mirror? 

[Steve (sdh2903)]

Terrible driving from ocon. 16th place man should not be deciding who wins the race.  However in the waiting room the conversation between Hamilton and max was quite telling when Lewis told him that he had everything to lose and ocon had nothing to lose. And max didn't argue the point. He should have given all the room in the world to protect the win.

Max looks to be a nailed on future champion if given a car to do it but he's still only 20 (Lewis only started f1 at 22) and still doesn't have that quality of knowing when to pick your fights and when to back off. Although he does seem to have matured over this season.

I like the fact he spoke to ocon face to face rather than just slating each other in the press. The sport needs characters and passion.

I think the driver who got off the lightest this weekend was vettel after his temper tantrums on the scales. A fine that equates to a quarter of a days pay. Wow.

 

[Terryathome]

No rules to say you can't overtake the leader. And that Icon was on newer tyres so he had the faster cornering speed. Pit boss should have told Max this.

Max in my view put himself into that position with lack of maturity. Lewis comments are sound.

[Rhett Turner - Black Country AO]

I'd like to see a little more of the what happens just before the crash, from what I saw at the time Ocon was much quicker than Max at the end of the straight and went to pass on the outside giving Max a lot of room, Max then just shut the door and the inevitable happened. Had they being racing Ocon would have been in the position to squeeze him going into turn one and would have then had the high ground going into turn two.  I think sometimes the arrogance of the leaders means that they  expect back markers to just disappear, brake, get off the track or what ever.  I'm not sure it was a cut and dry as presented and I thought the Ocon penalty was a little harsh, but I concede that the powers that be have access to a lot more information than we do.  I did wonder if Max attacked him to direct the anger outwards that he should have been pointing inwards. Lewis was correct in what he said afterwards, I remember him also tripping up on a back marker who did not get out of the way quick enough, at Spa I think. 

Personally I'd like to see the blue flag system changed a bit, I think you should know that it's a lapping car behind you but I'm not sure I fully agree with the you must jump out of the way within three corners rule, when you looked to what made some of the greats, greater it was the way they managed to deal with back markers, Senna being one of the best at dealing with back markers 

[DonPeffers]

3 hours ago, Terryathome said:

No rules to say you can't overtake the leader. And that Icon was on newer tyres so he had the faster cornering speed. Pit boss should have told Max this.

Max in my view put himself into that position with lack of maturity. Lewis comments are sound.

I agree with Rory's Dad and Terry that Max could, and should, have taken more care on turn in, especially given that Ocon has had a few crashes including with his teammate.

I noticed Sep 16, 2018  Perez, Ocon not allowed to race each other anymore    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ocon-perez-not-allowed-to-race-singapore-crash/3178423/

To pull Terry's leg slightly I not convinced Ocon will be an icon.

I'm in favour of DRS being available to assist with unlapping where a car has say been in the pits for a new nosecone after a collision.

I don't see DRS as a valid tool to allow slower cars (a full 4.3km lap behind) the opportunity to catch the leader and risk a crash where the back marker making the move has little to lose.

I suppose the incident did create some controversy and dull F1 likely needs it.

[Terryathome]

To pull Terry's leg slightly I not convinced Ocon will be an icon. 

[djm]

i agree with Rhett about the arrogance some race leaders Hamilton is just the same and you have got one common factor with Hamilton and Verstappen neither of them have been backmarkers in F1. They were both launched at a very young into a front running team and they don't seem to have any respect for backmarkers, which is a shame as the "feeder" teams are just as important as the leading teams. With only 20 cars on the grid these days the spectacle is diminishing especially for trackside viewing, I remember the time when there was too many cars for the 32 car grid and after qualifying some went home without a race and the racing was much closer! Rant over.

[Captain Colonial]

I’m afraid it’s simple physics.  Ocon was on the inside of the right hander, his car slightly behind Max but still 50% overlapped.  Max turned in to take the apex without ensuring he was clear of Ocon.  Ocon had no place to go (and in fact if you look at the contact photo, Ocon is two wheels off the course and straddling the kerbs trying to avoid Max turning in).  Two things can’t be in the same place at once.  Contact made.  Physics wins.

If Max had taken the wide line through the turn (as he should have), no accident.

If Max had looked in his mirror or looked to his side to see if he was clear, no accident.

Max knew it was Ocon and what he drives like, and should have made allowances.

Sorry, but in my books, Max is 100% liable.  He turned into Ocon, not the other way around.  You turn right across the front of another car 50% overlapped next to you and then try to make an insurance claim saying it was the other drivers fault, and see how far you get.

Max is his own worst enemy.  He could be a great driver if he lives long enough to mature.  It will be interesting to see how he reacts when he has an excellent chassis and probably a worse (Honda) engine next season.

[corsechris]

I think it was more a 'racing incident' than anything else as well, with perhaps a bit of a bias toward MV carrying slightly more of the blame simply because he had so much to lose - why the hell didn't he just jump out of the way and let Ocon go past free and clear - what possible benefit was there to him to race the guy who was clearly a lot quicker on new rubber. Even if he was worried Ocon might slow him down some laps later, he'd have blue flags to help him past. 10/10 for racing spirit, 0/10 for smart thinking.

No time for the conspiracy nuts either - no gain to MB worth the mention if MV or LH won.

MV will be a champion one day as long as he gets the equipment, but I agree, he'll need to control his enthusiasm a bit.

[Peter Robinson]

https://www.formula1.com/en/video/2018/11/Ride_onboard_with_Ocon_for_the_laps_leading_up_to_Verstappen_clash.html?fbclid=IwAR0ysaoRNpQ-n8ja3LB_7s0oSRIORHcI6k1gB9PZQhvhU_L_plTJ-bg4VzM

worth a watch, Max knew he was there and going faster!

[Blatman]

Max was the leader. He doesn't have to leave the door open for a lapped car. I agree that if he had things would have been different but either way,, lapped cars should pay the leader due respect and not poke theirs noses into a gap that they must surely know is going to close as the leader takes the racing line. If Ocon was that much faster there is no harm in waiting for the next straight which also affords him DRS.

50% alongside is not the rule as I understand it although I'll stand to be corrected The cars must be side by side. Wheel-to-wheel if you like. Anything less and the corner belongs to the car in front.

Either way I doubt Ocon will stick his nose in there against Max again, and we saw that on other occasions during the race. It seems Max is marking his territory well. Can anyone think of another driver who was un-compromising when it came to giving up track position?

 

[pete g]

max is a knob 

[DonPeffers]

19 hours ago, Blatman said:

Can anyone think of another driver who was un-compromising when it came to giving up track position?

 

Schumacher and Senna among others.

Thinking about Rhett's comment about the arrogance of some F1 race leaders, IMO Vettel is head and shoulders above the competition.